Mike Dillard VS Ann Sieg -- Friends or Foes?

Great article, food for thought

Shortly after I came into the magnetic sponsoring system, I opted into every email list I could opt in to that had anything to do with "attraction marketing", the Renegade Marketing system by Ann Seig was one of them. My intention was to learn as much as I could, as fast as I could by reading everything I could get my hands on and learning what felt good to me and what didn't. I do agree, once you "finally" open up to the offer of learning "attraction marketing", and you begin to understand it, it's good to know a little of what everyone's doing and from there, you can put YOUR system together.

Great post.
Karen

Great Article

I am using both too... :)

A closer look at the differences between Magnetic Sponsoring and

I think the differences between Magnetic Sponsoring and The Renegade are very interesting. Here I'm only talking about how the books are written, not about the differences between the entire systems (that's a huge topic).

People who are leaders, such as Mike Dillard and Ann Sieg, are very much who they are. That may sound strange to read, but it's quite significant. A leader is a leader because they are clear about their values and they express those values most of the time in their daily lives and business. So, Mike Dillard can't help but be himself all over the book Magnetic Sponsoring, just like Ann Sieg can't help but be herself all over her ebook, The Renegade.

So they both appeal to different audiences (basically, their books each appeal to people who share similar values as they do). Since Ann is a woman approaching 50 years of age, she is going to attract a larger audience than Mike can,because there are more baby-boomers than Gen Xers... on top of that, Mike is a young man whose writing style is very masculine (think muscle cars and boxing rings). He will attract a lot of men while Ann will attract more women. It's marketing 101. And if you look at the testimonials on Ann's lead capture page vs. those on Mike's you'll see what I men (Mike has nearly all men, if not all).

Just keep in mind, both books will attract different audiences. If you promote both books, be sure you're talking to the write audience when you write your ad copy and headlines.

Hmm! Great discussion. I also bought both, I think you have to even if it's for research purposes alone. I was talking with someone who thought I was a lead, because of opting-in to Ann Sieg's thing but to be honest I told him there was someone who went before her, namely Mike Dillard.....and who knows who went before him....eh! Dan Kennedy.

People are not re-inventing the wheel here, it's a culmination of research, trial error etc., but as regards an 'epifany', I'm not sure about that.

Marketing is founded on 'not re-inventing the wheel' (unless it's completely innovative), but rather taking something existing, whether it be from one source or marrying a combination of sources and modifying that to create a USP.

Also, I agree that in part it comes down to the 'style' of the person. For me, I prefer Mike Dillard's straight talking, not that Ann Sieg is fluffy, but I just prefer the way Mike speaks, it's generally how I speak so there is the commonality. Nothing to do with age for me or gender for me.....actually that's a lie ;D, I find in business men 'cut to the chase' more so than women.....it doesn't waste my time.

Sometimes whether we realise it or not, women are more emotionally based. Ever catch yourself saying 'I feel that' rather than 'I believe that' in a business meeting? I have and is annoying to me to say the least as I pay attention to 'mirroring' people in a business situation.

Anyway, I 'belive' ;)they both have something of value to offer, the same way one would subscribe to various copywriting forums, networking forums, social networks, etc.

Always great to learn what else is out there!

Michele

Food for thought...

Although marketing is not about 're-inventing the wheel', it IS about re- FRAMING your offer.

This is crucial, and where all these "spin-offs" of Mike's are falling prey. Bottom line, if you copy "Coke" to become "pepsi", you will ALWAYS be number 2.

Marketing is about innovation, not just *cloning* someone else's efforts.

And even if Mike did use techniques from Perry Marshall and Dan Kennedy, its the fact that he COMMUNICATED the application of their methods in THIS industry.

So he did "innovate" these methods. He also "framed" them very well.

Mike's stuff is great as i'm sure Ann's is good as well.

Follow who YOU feel connected with, as far as style.

As far as "systematizing" ourselves tho, I personally would do without "attraction marketing" as a theme. Its been done, and I accept and give credit to (mainly Mike for it), but leave it at that.

The key to capitalizing on these methods is to be "innovative" and create your own FRAME! :)

Re-framing vs. Copying a System

Hi David, I am not sure I agree completely that there isn't value in copying a system without making a lot of changes to it. You may end up #2, like Pepsi, but that doesn't mean it wasn't worth while. They're still a billion dollar success.

I do agree with you that there is far more opportunity availalbe in re-framing an existing concept and adding 'new' value to it that did not previously exist. Like Google. Some might say they copied Yahoo, others may see what they did was re-framed Yahoo's concept (and other search engine models)-- that being they used different search engines techniques and created revenue differently by packaging advertising differently. This made them #1 even though they weren't first to the market.

I think there are a lot of ways 'teaching attraction marketing' can be framed to provide different forms of value. And I am certain we are going to see more of it.

For example, Mike Dillard recently introduced more specialized training (and I believe we will see more on this) on how to create your own lead generation system. He re-packaged what he'd been offering but in a new delivery (with updated information from MLM Traffic Formula) for a slightly more specialized audience. Anyone with the know-how could have offered something like that. Anyone with the know-how could offer any new form of training or tools and value in this new attraction based model.

I'm not sure if Ann Sieg's system, the Renegade Network Marketer would be a copy or a re-framing. I believe it appeals to a different audience and although I loved Magnetic Sponsoring I wasn't able to bring it to my particular team because it didn't 'speak their language.' Ann's ebook and system allowed me to do that more easily. Then, I was able to introduce them to Magnetic Sponsoring. Now, this has put me in a position to re-frame all this information and training and package it in more step by step detail for beginners.

So I feel any contribution can end up being useful. It's not possible to stop it anyway, so we just as well move forward knowing that this 'teaching of attraction' marketing is going to rapidly change and become more competitive. I think that's a good thing.

...Are you sure?

LOL, thought I'd get your attention with that headline real quick Mike. ;)

Yah, I agree with ya for the most part man.

Was just emphasizing the importance of the USP in these efforts.

Re-packaging Mike's course will bring in sales, but what's the point? -He already said it, and said it well.

But sure, if you're adding value to the same concept like you mentioned above, then I'm all for that.

It's just, i've seen over and over, (not ann sieg) but others, re-package mikes idea verbatum with no added value of their own.

So the point i was getting at, was to provide added value to the marketplace, without just feeding them the exact information being promoted all over our industry.

And is far as the framing... differentiate yourself by not using Mike's "how to attract endless new distributors to you" treadstone.

But as a whole Mike, I agree with your last comment whole-heartedly. :)

Nice controversial topic on the article tho! -got my attention (obviously) ;)

I read both and apply all !

Both are great stuff.... I read both and apply the concepts in my networking routine.

Kaz Aza ;D

Both are good!

I'm not sure if Ann got her "stuff" from Mike or not. But I do know that she had to find another way, just like the rest of us, to market online. Nothing of the old MLM teachings really work anymore. So no matter where any of this derived from, I'm sure grateful for it! :)

I'm coming for em both...

Watch out dillard and Sieg! Cause I'm hungry for some market share and ready to gobble... :)

That's the right attitude Jonathan!

The key to attraction marketing is to eventually create your own presence online... we've been working on a system that would make that easier for beginners' to do out of the gate--- to promote themselves, while they're selling ebook (creating positive cash flow) and attracting prospects all at the same time. It's key to do something that is promoting YOU and not just the system's creator. Both Ann Sieg and Mike Dillard emphasize this as well, which is cool since they are really encouraging people to grow past their systems and helping people to do so.

Stay tuned! Lots of exciting things ahead.

Sieg and Dillard in Cahoots?

At one time I read something on one of Ann's sites that said she actually learned at the feet of Mike Dillard. In fact, I think she was in his downline at one time.

Apples don't fall too far from the tree, folks.
-Lisa

I use tips from both of them.

I use primarily Magnetic Sponsoring techniques, but I also bought Renegade Marketer. I have learned a great deal from both of them and they both have benefitted me a great deal.

Wendy Hill

Very interesting discussion

They both provide useful information, since they are on the same page when it comes to marketing. I have find them both to be a great resource to use. Lisa, I also remember reading that on Ann's site.

One problem however...

If my memory serves me correctly, Ann Sieg didn't initially build her business with attraction marketing.

I remember when she came on the scene last year. She had Google Ads all over the internet, which lead to her sales letter. She must have been spending a fortune. Actually, I know she was spending a fortune cause I had software that would spy and monitor her ads.

Then suddenly, she comes out with RNM.

I know before, she was basically promoting Leader's club products, was using Adwords under every possible keyword imaginable which redirected to a sales letter. (If anyone has another perspective, please chime in.)

Mike on the other hand build his business using a self-funded proposal from the ground up.

So that's the real distinction in who I trust.

There's a lot of intangible value and knowledge that comes from building from the ground up, that you can't get by doing a carbon copy of someone else's strategy.

And from a copywriting and marketing perspective, Mike is hands down the best.

There are also other systems, which I've tried and researched. A lot of them offered more bells and whistles and on paper, where better.

But when it came down to conversions and enrolling people, MS still won out and had more of an impact on my prospects and downline.

Ultimately, I think MS will continue to dominate over all others, because of the intangibles which are only visible to a savvy marketer.

I'm sure Ann is a great person, but I've yet to see the innovation, which is the trademark of any good marketer. But I'm sure she'll continue to create a loyal following and do well for herself.

well my opionion

they are both saving the industry....so that's a hats off to both.... i love this article, because it looked as if they are in competition, but it's a whole nother concept behind.... i'll be gettin ann's stuff pretty soon and i gott mikes traffic formula.... so this is awesome.... great article man....keep on keeping on

take care
Ryndal

Is Google Adwords Attraction Marketing

Just reading through some of the posts above, and thought I'd respond to the idea that Google Adwords isn't a part of the attraction marketing process (referencing Ferny's post that Ann Sieg relied heavily on Google Adwords to start her marketing off).

However, Mike Dillard also suggested that Adwords was his main form of marketing in his book, MLM Traffic Formula.

Any successful formula where you see someone advertising while generating positive cash-flow, building and continually monetizing a prospects list, and then guiding those prospects into joining a downline organization in a progressive sequential process is a stellar example of attraction marketing.

Both Magnetic Sponsoring and The Renegade are excellent examples. I lean towards Ann's system more because her system is set up to let the user receive all of the affiliate commissions on the back-end, where Mike's MLM Traffic Formula course book refers to many of his own affiliate links, therefor cutting me out. I still think there is great value in the MLM Traffic Formula book and do sell them to people who like to read big manuals.

Lately, we're leaning more toward a step-by-step video tutorial format however and have had some great results for those that need to be shown how to do this stuff.

Clarifying Attraction Marketing

I just wanted to clarify some of my comments as it relates to Adwords and attraction marketing.

There are two uses of adwords I have seen: 1) Adwords being used as part of a direct response marketing strategy, which is self-funding with front-end produts (i.e. attraction marketing), 2) Adwords ads for the sake of branding and mass marketing, where you take a loss for the sake of getting your name out there.

It was clear that Ann Sieg used and still uses Adwords for branding purposes and I'm positive she does not recoup her loses from sales on the front-end. (Like I said, I spy on her ads. :) )

Ann, before Renegade, drove traffic to her sales page, not to a lead capture page.

That's the difference between Mike and Ann's path to success. One could argue for or against the use of a certain strategy. Either way, she found success.

But if you are low on funds and need to recoup your marketing as you go, I think Mike can offer far more insight as to how that is done than just about anyone else who's carbon copied his strategy.

Her path towards her initial successes is not something that can be duplicated.

It's important to understand the path those you follow have taken, before you chose to follow them, because there will be many trip ups a long the way where the intangibles of what you learn have far more of an impact, than the obvious steps of setting up capture pages, email autoresponders, sales pages, etc.

Keeping Your Marketing Costs to Zero

Hi Fernando,

I have seen your lead capture pages out there on the net and I highly respect your business innovation. I do disagree with your conclusion that Ann didn't create more cash-flow than she generated on Adwords as I have some insider's info on that... however, I do agree with a point you made indirectly, which is something I also share with newbies.

If someone's on a tight budget or even have no budget, you have to focus on marketing methods that have no cost. The Internet is going through some fantastic changes right now in the social marketing arean, and gives everyone a chance to jump in and start generating tons of prospects without spending a dime.

I did a Webinar on this topic last week and had about 400 people watch that ... many of them have already reported back results (the webinar was held on the 22nd). If anyone would like to watch that webinar it was recorded and gives tons of info you can walk away with to start markeing through social sites at no cost even if you're brand new to it all. My audience is beginners so that's who I frame all these events for.

Excellent Post!

I very much enjoyed the read of it and altough I haven't read through all of the information that Mike Dillard have to offer or Any of Ann Sieg´s I can extrapolate off what I have learnt with Sitesell and it's system since I know Ann and Ken Evoy have an intimate business relationships with their two producs.

When it comes down to it regardless of where Ann or Mike is coming from isn't it the learning process that they both provide is the more interesting aspect? Since the two flagsships magnetic sponsoring and the RNM are different in nature two different sets of experiences will be drawn from them.

Mike Klinger, would you care to send me the link to that webinar via pm? Your description sounded interesting enough to spark my curiosity =)

Gettin Started

I am new in this business. I have to say that I have no experience what so ever. I can surely sell an investment produt or a life insurance policy face to face which are intangible probucts as is the internet marketing. I know that it is going to be a long apprendice journey. I thank tyou for  any suggestion and help on this matter. .

Mario venturini         

Great Subject

I have to say Magnetic Sponsoring has got me feeling like a new person and would recommend it to anyone. I was really floored by some of the ways he teaches that are only  in his ebook. Anyone who has read it would should agree. It will carry me a for years in this business but as far as some that are new to network marketing with a small budget Renegade Professional really physically helps you actually do it faster because of how easy it is. I did the whole Google Adwords thing (9 videos) a little while ago in my back office. I learned so much knowing for a fact that I can access anything I want whenever I want and see how its done. Mike Dillard and Ann Sieg are a winning combination.