Renegade Professional - The Failure Rate No One Talks About
Read More: *****Update - September 13, 2009*****
- Meet the Renegade Professional success stories
- Find out the quickest and easiest way to NOT fail with Renegade Professional (or any other internet marketing training system)
- Bonus tutorials and "super" guidance to help you get over the first 90 day hurdle can be found at Renegade Professional Bonus
- Which are You - Newbie or Smart Beginner?
So let's set the record straight before I get into this article, the problem is NOT Renegade Professional, or anything else. The issue will always be about implementation and application, as well as mindset. Please find the links above to assist in further understanding these things.
I also think it's the same with Traffic Formula 2, you either work your butt off to implement, or you don't. But it's not money spent on incomplete knowledge. Nonetheless, "half way there," still isn't "there."
Not many people have been talking about this, at least not publicly, but there is a healthy failure rate at Renegade Professional (University), as well as Traffic Formula or MLM Lead System Pro, or anything. And it's not something you're reading when searching the Google oblivion of Renegade Professional or any other reviews posted on the net like a litter of pole signs in an empty parking lot.
People are failing themselves.
What do I mean by failing?
Large numbers of Renegade Professionals aren't applying the attraction marketing training properly to build a presence on the internet, and in affect, their network marketing business using the monetization strategies taught throughout the Renegade Professional back office.
Who and What is to blame?
The Success Myth - Factors for Failure
Take a closer look at Renegade Professional...they teach HOW-TO DO internet-based attraction marketing for the beginner and intermediate network marketer.
And their training is quietly revolutionizing the entire network marketing industry - picking up where leaders like Mike Dillard and Ann Sieg have left off with their mega-successful books - Magnetic Sponsoring and The Renegade Network Marketer.
Diagnosis of the Problem is two fold, but before I explain, I want to be perfectly clear -
Renegade Professional is not to blame, at the same time, Renegade Professional isn't more than what it really is, and that is a comprehensive step by step attraction marketing training curriculum.
Nothing more and nothing less (of course, try and find something similar).
Problem #1 - Me and You: Poor Promotion
I admit, I've been guilty of this.
Yes, the training that Renegade Professional offers is the best in the industry for beginner and intermediate marketers. And yes, finally a teacher like Mike Klingler has arrived on the scene offering so much value one is naturally inclinded to sing his praises.
But for too long (the collective) we have usurped God with the audacity of Satan in our promotion of Renegade Professional, only to end up sounding like a bad info-commercial trying to con people into thinking they're the one that can do what's never been done, and win what's never been won.
Meanwhile, people are getting the wrong idea about Renegade Professional and enrolling with the wrong mindset. This leads to failure and exacerbates the drop out rate.
Problem #2
I have a friend named Robert Ford. He's been six figure successful in network marketing since before I graduated from high school using the traditional network marketing approach. We talk. He has a great story, and a lot of value to offer.
He's also making the transition (and maintaining the balance) toward internet network marketing using the attraction model. So he has a unique perspective. Because he recognizes the limitations of the traditional model, and the potential with the new model.
He defines "measureable massive marketing action" (MMMA) as:
* 15 classified ads per week
* 25 pole signs per week
* 1,000 business cards per day, 6 days a week
After having done this himself and training others how to do so, it's measurable that a pipeline of leads will begin within 45-60 days. In doing this for two years, Robert was able to reach six figures.
Robert readily admits that it's not sustainable, and when he stops, so do the leads. Combine that with attrition and you have a recipe for a dwindling network marketing business.
What is the equivalent to this on the internet?
How about learning to attract leads with a skill set that includes how to develop a web of content that speaks directly to your target market; how to create your own capture pages; how to write a autoresponder follow up campaign; and how to use social media marketing and leverage the news.
This isn't physical labor, this requires something different, but the concept is the same - get in front of as many people as possible.
For Smart Beginners, Failing Renegade Professionals and Magnetic Sponsors Using the Wrong Side of the Magnet
I've been told by enough successful internet network marketers, including Mike Klingler himself, that "it has to hurt."
I was a smart beginner last late April (early May) and I begin to study the attraction marketing curriculum at Renegade Professional. Armed with my copy of Magnetic Sponsoring and Renegade Network Marketer, I used Renegade Professional's training to put my marketing on the web and build a presence.
After 60 days, even after 90 days - all I heard were crickets. I'd write content, make videos, hang on Mike Klingler's words like it was Gospel. Nothing happend. Or so I thought. But I kept going. As if I was haunted, I kept going like I was trying to burn black holes in dark memories, I didn't stop.
That's what it takes, and that's how you have to use Renegade Professional. If you were willing to pay thousands upon thousands of dollars for a college degree that didn't amount to much more than an employment screening pass, you can afford to pay $39 and study your tail off.
Hopefully you've outgrown the ramen, rice and beer so your thoughts will be a bit more clear.
Get In Now or Wait Until March Because Renegade Professional is Closing It's Doors
Catch Mike Klingler - Live - Personalize Your "Attraction Marketing" Training & Game Plan - Thursday, January 29th @ 6:30 PM PST as he'll be walking you through the attraction marketing training within the Renegade Professional back office, and how you can use it to meet your internet network marketing goals.
Special Note
That Live webinar has now passed, but will be available soon. It may be available industry wide for a few short days so you can see the uniqueness of the training at Renegade Professional.
But you'll just be waisting your time if you don't rock steady and implement. You don't have to go nuts and try to accomplish extraordinary results in an extraordinary amount of time. But I do recommend finding a pace, creating a plan, working that plan and comitting yourself to a full year.
There is a lot of training to follow through with, from the basics of just starting to getting more people onto your list. It's extensive. If you're not following a plan, you face being like the majority who get overwhelmed and fail.
====== Read How to Get Started With Eric Walker at Renegade Professional ======
Keep an eye open for more news from Mike Klingler as to why Renegade Professional is closing its doors, to reopen with an upgraded version in late March.
In order to take part in the 7 day trial for $1 before it goes away, and join in the Live Webinars, follow these steps:
If you do not have a Renegade University account, get one here.
Then, Log in to www.marketingmerge.com with your username and password.
Sign up for the 7 day trial for $1. There are 3 steps inside of Renegade University. The sign-up link will be at the top left hand corner of Step 2, in a box, or at the bottom of the page on Step 3, in a text link.
Once you've upgraded to Professional, go to www.marketingmerge.com, click on Professional, and log in with your username and password.
Mike Klingler Gives Away His "How I Built My First List" Secrets
This could be just the thing someone new or lost with building a network marketing business on the web needs.
Over the course of three weeks, Mike Klingler will be hosting 3 live webinars that cover the following:
"How I Built My First List of 1172 Prospects Within 3 Days (As A 'Newbie')"
Tuesday, February 3rd @ 6:30 PM PST - 1.5 hrs.
"How To Apply What I Did But In Your Business"
Tuesday, February 10th @ 6:30 PM PST - 1.5 hrs.
"Why YOU Already Are An Expert: How to Turn Your Knowledge Into a Valuable Commodity That Attracts People Onto Your List"
Tuesday, February 17th @ 6:30 PM PST - 1.5 hrs
Special Bonus For The First 100 People Who Register - SOLD OUT
Live Webinar - Tuesday, February 24th @ 6:30 PM PST - 2 hrs
A special 2-hour Q & A Session with Ann Sieg & Mike Klingler-answering questions Live and discussing the subjects covered in the course candidly and in a more informal format.
Here Mike and Ann will be able to connect with you on a more personal level as they answer questions submitted.
In addition to being on the live calls, you'll also receive digital recordings of each class so you can go back to them anytime you want.
The cost is $97 and here is a link to the sales page: How I Built My First List
When you purchase this from me, I earn a 60% commission. If you so desire, at the conclusion of the course, I will reinvest the commission I earned from your purchase by assisting YOU with implementation across ONE follow up coaching session and ongoing email support.
Here's the thing, you can get the aforementioned classes for free if you sign up as a Renegade Professional now ($39 per month) before Renegade Professional closes it's doors until late March or early April, and raises its price. Create your Renegade Professional account HERE.
Views: 2,517
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Comments: 27 
About the Author: Eric Walker
Member Since: 05/06/2008
I'm a Distributor For:: SendOutCards
Other Company: Eric Walker Marketing LLC
Industry: Education
Primary Web Site: http://EricLWalker.com
Are You Attracting Bees or Flys?
Ann Sieg and Mike Dillard have never built a large Network Marketing Organization. All I know about Mike Klinger is, that I telephoned and left two or three messages about a year ago, when The U was being started. Two or three months later, he finally returned my call. By that time, I'd found my system.
Most people know, that Ann would still be minding her husband's business and Mike would still be waiting tables if they had not developed their own systems that broadcast messages to "attract" people so that people like us, would sell their information. Consider the information.
The 7 Greatest Lies of Network Marketing. That sure sends out a signal about network marketing, doesn't it? Imagine a potential prospect reads some hype from some sponsor monster. The Prospect googles "Network Marketing". What comes back?... four or five negative google adds to attract a neutral prospect, who is rapidly becoming a bad prospect. The bad prospect confirms all the other negative trash they hear about network marketing when T7GLofNM is read. Even if they invest $67 in Renegade, he realizes You just made $33 on the purchase. Does that make a bad prospect suddenly, a good prospect? Does that suddenly make a person, whose suspicions are confirmed by Ann, into a trusting person of You?
If as You say, "Attraction" marketing isn't being used properly, I'm thinking, "You got exactly what You were fishing for... suspicious people, who think Network Marketers are a bunch of crooks!". For 33 pieces of silver, You will have unwittingly betrayed Network Marketing.
I've been there and done that. Mike Klinger can makeover RU all he wants, he will never attract the caliber of prospects he wants and needs, when he's fishing with "The 7 Greatest Lies..."
Find someone, who is building a huge Network Marketing organization, who has a proven system, and beg him to let You tag along. And then, as Mr Dillard says, go from beta to alpha. Become the leader, by first finding one to immulate.
Most people do network marketing everyday. Network Marketers have just figured out how to get paid for it. You will continue to attract flys with vinegar, but You'll attract busy little bees with honey.
ReIgniting a Controversy & Building a Web to Catch Bees & Flies
@ Jerrry,
I appreciate your thoughts, and I'm glad you dropped by to do so.
You wrote:
"Ann Sieg and Mike Dillard have never built a large Network Marketing Organization."
From my research you are incorrect about both Ann Sieg and Mike Dillard having never built a network marketing organization. Indeed, they have. And they have led people that have, and they have created systems for people that have, but I feel that is a moot point with regard to my article.
You wrote:
"Ann would still be minding her husband's business and Mike would still be waiting tables if they had not developed their own systems that broadcast messages to "attract" people so that people like us, would sell their information."
1). Both books, MS and RNM, advocate for network marketers to create their own systems. If applied correctly, Renegade Professional University can teach you how to do so.
2). I think we have a different outlook when you say "selling" their information...their "information" is sold at a price that is a fraction of it's value. Besides, it serves as a prequalification to determine serious individuals who are willing to invest in themselves from time wasters while funding the process. This is marketing 101.
You wrote:
"Even if they invest $67 in Renegade, he realizes You just made $33 on the purchase. Does that make a bad prospect suddenly, a good prospect? Does that suddenly make a person, whose suspicions are confirmed by Ann, into a trusting person of You?"
What would the above scenario have to do with me making $33? If a prospect bought the Renegade from me so what...their purchase of the Renegade has everything to do with them and what they do with the information. Good prospect or bad prospect? I don't know, but it certainly qualifies them for my time. I don't concern myself with whether or not people are trusting of me - my actions will speak for themself. That in and of itself is all the Truth anyone needs.
You wrote:
"Mike Klinger can makeover RU all he wants, he will never attract the caliber of prospects he wants and needs, when he's fishing with "The 7 Greatest Lies..."
Some feel Ann Sieg's made a tremendous contribution, others get worked up and defensive.
Why - are incomes being threatened when people move to 'Attraction Marketing'... is this new territory a threat?
Doesn't matter who says it, whether it be Ann Sieg, Mike Dillard, or Mike Klingler, in the new millenium if you don't ditch hotel meetings and names lists and learn how to start attracting prospects with real value to build an MLM, you're done before you start.
Less and less people are going to subscribe to old-school upline trainings that require you to gather at their home to make phone calls on a Sunday evening, or 'how to prospect friends and family' ... I wouldn't buy that CD's no matter who it was. And no phony two bit carny hypnotist is going to convince me that I need to know 'how to develop the belief system necessary to succeed.'
No sir, I'll spend my money on a skill set grounded in solid principles focused on Internet Attraction Marketing Training instead (any day and all day long at home - not at the mall pushing an agenda toward a stranger in Barnes & Nobles)
Here's What I Think...
Eric Walker would serve the industry well with his own training system or to provide some kind of service or product that allows him to reach more people much like Dillard and Sieg have done. Because you're a smart cookie with a big heart to help others--a powerful duo. I read somewhere you said you had a challenge learning new things... whether that's true I don't know. You grasp the concepts quickly if you ask me. You work hard. Those two qualities are a winning combo
Sometimes in business it's helpful to take a step back from all the 'noise' and look at the entire industry you're participating in. Then, re-position yourself entirely by embarking on a project that is painfully more challenging but once done immediately puts you in a far greater point of leverage. This leverage allows you to reach a lot more poeple and it pays better too.
Was I off topic? I'd argue no :-)
Mike
P.S. I highly recommend Eric Walker as a coach to anyone looking to set up their marketing. He's one of those rare people who love to help others succeed. He invests a lot of his money into new training constantly, and shares what he knows willingly. Connecting up with him will shorten anyone's learning curve who is looking for how to begin.
What an interesting discussion
Mike had a very valid point. Step back out of the noise and assess. We are all responsible for ourselves and the decisions we make. The bottom line is can a network marketer be successful if they follow any particular system correctly? If the answer is yes than that system is worthy of looking at if you are prepared to do whatever it takes.
The discussion is focused online but Eric you illustrated a point that I believe all network marketers should go back and read again. Your 6 figure successful network marketer illustration is worth thinking about. He made his money offline and is venturing now into online marketing. Starting your business utilizing both right from the get go is the best of both worlds. Unfortunately what I see too often is an online system that teaches only that. In fact they will tell you to stay away from your warm or local markets. That in my opinion is a mistake and doesn't serve the industry.
I would advise anyone to find an upline or coach who will teach them methods that work in both arenas - off and online. Network marketing is who you are. You can't and shouldn't turn it off when you go to the grocery store.
To your success,
Joyce Penner
www.joycepenner.com
"Doing What You Do Best" Online and Offline
@Joyce - I agree with your comment, "Network marketing is who you are. You can't and shouldn't turn it off when you go to the grocery store," and completely understand. I'm a teacher, and I "wear" in every fiber of my being no matter where I go. For example, I was talking the other day with a woman who is a certified Doula - she works with pregnant women to assist them with the birthing process. She wants to develop a presence on the web; wants to "look" professional and have a newsletter, etc. I can assist her, and show her how to do that. Then that relationship "networked" itself over to the ears at my local public library, and now I find myself working with them to offer an adult enrichment class for Writing for the Web.
@Mike - Certainly not off topic. Thank you for the ringing words of praise. You've taught me a lot, but your comment above reminds me that we are in a 'special time' in this new era of internet network marketing. I feel educating ourselves will only empower ourself to determine how we can best serve the masses.
My Thoughts on This
Hey Eric:
I'm totally intrigued with your thoughts regarding RPro - and with the varoius comments here.
If the 'failure rate' from RPro is the secret that nobody is talking about - I totally agree with you - many are simply "not implementing" what Mike Klingler is teaching. They're not "doing" the required tasks.
In my opinion, it's really no different than with most things in this life -- sadly, people won't pay the PRICE in order to receive the ultimate PRIZE.
Up front Eric - I see you (as well as other Marketing Merge Super Guides) as wonderful examples for us - of those who have taken the teaching and coaching from industry pros and visionaries like - Ann Sieg - Mike K. - Ferny C. - Mike D., etc - and "put it into practice".
You "walk the walk" - and that acts as a powerful inspiration for all of us who still have some mountains to climb in embracing the NEW methodologies of the 21st century.
To me, after 20-years in this great industry (an industry I love) - I believe that Marketing Merge / Renegade Univ / Renegade Pro are among the absolute finest educational programs anywhere, for 'committed' Network Marketers.
Times are changing rapidly, and Mike Klingler has done a masterful job of 'raising the bar' on where we all need to be marching in this industry.
And this is especially so, for those of us who wish to embrace the ATTRACTION business model for building our businesses ONline (InterNetwork Marketing).
Nevertheless, as you've probably seen here at BN - not everybody IS so excited about Attraction Marketing - many are struggling with the 'time factor' - and even Mike Dillard confesses that it was not Attraction Marketing that lifted him to his enormous level of success in this industry - instead, it was PPC / PayPerClick).
BALANCE - I personally believe that the healthiest direction for most of us is to embrace "different" marketing strategies - try a number of them - then, gradually "focus" on two or three that work, based on tracking the results.
RELATIONSHIP Marketing - Personally, I love the whole Relationship Marketing model - but I know that many just can't seem to get their arms around it - including those representing companies with say, a "single" (feel-good) product - one that is easy to explain - simple to understand - where "relationship" building is not so critical, prior to the sale. I happen to disagree, personally.
But to me, what's even more exciting than InterNetwork Marketing is this ... as we keep evolving and "mixing together" the best of - Affiliate Marketing + Internet Marketing + Network Marketing + Direct Marketing (yes, there's still a place for that too) -- we'll see some "new" terminology emerging - words that much better describe what we're really doing.
IBM (Integrated Business Marketing) - This is what I call it - and it all has to do with the "integration" of these different marketing strategies into one structure. More importantly, it has to do with properly "positioning" ourselves as true Home Business OWNERS - by 'protecting' against harsh MLM company Policies & Procedures (which happens when we simply "join an MLM company, as a commissioned Sales Rep").
Instead, with the proper guidance, we put together a Diversified, Business Infrastructure, wherein that MLM forms only a 'part' (although an 'important' part) of our overall business (the back end).
THAT'S where I feel we need to go within our industry - and, when "combined" with a few of the best marketing strategies (as taught at RPro and other great venues), I believe we'll attract more and more highly motivated professionals into our field - and we'll see greater growth and profitability in our businesses.
CHANGE - For most of us, "change" is painful - particularly for those of us who built our MLM businesses using OLD School methods. It's very easy to become cynical - and critical - of NEW School methods that might even seem threatening. It's just human nature -
But the REALITY is - if we do NOT embrace and accept change - and adapt to it - we will be left behind, unfortunately.
GREAT thread, Eric - thank you.
Warmly / Peter A.
Peter Arnold - Excellent Social Content Contributor
Peter,
I have been amazed on 3 or 4 occassions at how well you communicate your undertsandings and perspectives upon the change that is occurring in the network marketing industry. And I am feeling that way again today
(after having read this 3 times - 2 times to take it in, one more time to have something to reply. But thinking about it, I realize there is nothing I have within my experience that can top your depth and breadth because I don't have 20-years in this great industry like you do. Nor do I have the maturity or collective wisdom as you do to even come close to speak from the platform from which you can - That's how much I respect people like you in this industry)
No sir, you stop me in my tracks with this stuff.
If you're reading this comment, I suggest you simply read Peter Arnold's comment above or go to his profile and learn more about his, and read some of his other content which can only be found in the forums. He really over-delivers in the forums.
Here are some of my favorite forum selection of Peter's -
Time for Leaders to Step Forward
From Old School to New School - Leaving 6 Figures
The Meaning of Success
Thanks for your contributions Peter. I like having you our community.
The Essence of Attraction Marketing
First, let me say that I agree wholeheartedly with the statement Eric made above about Peter Arnold. He has impressed me with his depth of knowledge and his willingness to impart it in every single post I've read from him. I am definitely watching Peter to see what he will say next.
Peter did make one comment that I do feel is worth exploring just a little bit. He pointed out that even Mike Dillard himself didn't amass his wealth using attraction marketing. He used Pay Per Click advertising. Ann Sieg had her ads all over Google Adwords when the Renegade Network Marketer was released. I'm not sure if Mike Klingler ever used PPC, but it wouldn't matter if he did. Because the way Dillard and Sieg used PPC is definitely attraction marketing in action, and I'm certain if Mike Klingler has used PPC, it would also be attraction marketing.
There is a common misconception that attraction marketing is somehow synonymous with free marketing. I myself have always avoided PPC because I thought it was 'cheating' somehow, and wasn't really attraction marketing. Recently, I've come to realize that someone who truly understands the principles of attraction marketing can do very well with PPC. Both Ann Sieg and Mike Dillard developed their own system (branding themselves as solutions providers), and created ads that were relevant to their target market. This is what attraction marketing is all about. If you don't know your target market VERY well, you can get burned with PPC.
You can argue that PPC is actually the epitome of what attraction marketing stands for. With some of the free methods of attraction marketing, you can write an article or publish a blog post that is aimed at no one in particular, or a VERY broad target market, and the worst that will happen is that few people will be impacted by it and no one will feel compelled to give you their contact information. With PPC, if you don't refine your marketing clearly and precisely, so you ONLY attract your ideal clients, then you WILL pay for it, as the wrong people click on your ad, only to discover you aren't offering what they were expecting.
I am currently going through the PPC Domination course, and I am glad I waited until now to look at PPC as an option. If I had tried it before going through the attraction marketing training, I am sure it would not have been pretty. With the Renegade University training to back up what I am learning from Jim, I am confident I will be able to create some ads that will help bring new profits into my business.
Lane Reiss
DITTO! :-)
Eric and Lane - I'm humbled by your very kind comments - THANK YOU so much.
I want to say immediately -- "likewise" -- I am a fan of both of you -- I love what you continually provide here at BN -- your thoughtful opinions -- intelligent discussion (and debate) -- in depth wisdom -- SO cool! :-)
It's all about "giving to GIVE" -- no hidden agenda -- and you do that, abundantly -- you guys "rock" with your leadership and your integrity -- and I for one, greatly APPRECIATE that -- I'm sure we all do here at BN. Again, my sincere gratitude for your remarks.
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PayPerClick --VS-- Attraction Marketing? - Lane, you clarified on a critical point -- one that I now completely "agree" with. You expressed this much better than I did. I should not have "separated" the two at all (at least, in 'their' cases)
YES - both Mike Dillard and Ann Sieg have used PPC (PayPerClick) to trigger fast and high success -- but if we examine the "way" they used PPC -- we would find that it does fall "within" the Attraction Marketing principles. Excellent point.
Here's my own thinking on this ((and I'm no 'expert' in this area yet, like you guys are!))...
Whether we use - Banner Ads - Article Writing - Social Media Marketing - PayPerClick - Blogs - Squidoo Lens's - Hub Pages - Twitter, etc => to get that 'initial' attention -- to find our audience -- to raise couriosity -- to get the "word" out there -- and whether it's "Free" - or whether we "Paid" to do it -- this is really NOT the determining factor.
I believe it all comes down to => how we continually GIVE VALUE to others -- help them with their concerns -- provide SOLUTIONS to their problems.
The way we "initiate" the Attraction Marketing process at the start might better be labled => the HOOK that we use, if you will.
Each of these different methods might be considered as the TOOL to "bring people into" the whole ATTRACTION business model (to "attract" them).
Some will not use these tools appropriately - others (like Sieg and Dillatd and Klingler) will do us proud on that score.
Frankly, I have totally "resisted" PPC myself -- I always felt it was too complicated - too costly - too risky.
However, like you Lane, I quickly purchased PPC Domination from Dillard and Yaghi last week - hoping now to (finally) get the 'right kind' of education for utilizing this important tool. And as you say, add to this - Renegade University + Renegade Pro (+ The90-Day Marketer) -- we should be getting our MBA in all this! :-)
And if I get the courage - I'll someday get SEO Networker from Ferny & Ray - for a PhD in this (but that's well beyond my level at this point).
Continuing Education STUDENTS - At the end of the day, our ongoing "committment: to this goal will reign supreme - in this profession, or any other (my opinion).
By the way, I wish you both much success with your new RENEGADE REFERRALS initiative.
Warmly / Peter A.
what's really going on?
Did Jerry Butterworth just tried to bring attention to himself? Any ways Mike Dillard ,Ann Sieg, and Mike Klinger are Leaders in attraction marketing and well respected in the industry.As long you have the right mindset,goals and training you will have much success in any business.
It is interesting to see where a conversation can go
Hey Eric
I enjoyed reading your post and the conversation it has generated and I smile thinking back to our orginal conversation about the success people have with attraction marketing. I also enjoyed reading Peter's comment as we both have a love for what is possible in this industry.
Network marketing and attraction marketing both take the same receipt for success... a clear direction or idea of the future, taking consistent action and the steps necessary to make it happen with adjustments to your plan and action as you move forward. The biggest challenge people have in network marketing or attraction marketing once they have a clear idea on what needs to be done is the simple doing of it!
When I was using traditional network marketing tactics to build my business I knew through experience exactly what I had to do to get interested people to pick up the phone to call me. Believe me it was a lot of work. As you point out above those who want to succeed with internet marketing also will have to do a lot of work. The difference is that most internet marketers don't know what I call the tipping point. Or what amount of content on the internet which causes it all to come together.
This could be an excellent topic for discussion because it would give people an accurate idea of what it takes to become successful with internet marketing up front and it could allow all of us to learn just what is the tipping point with the various internet methods: ezinearticles, squidoo, digg, etc.
Re: Are You Attracting Bees or Flys?
Well Jerry, your opening statement [Ann Sieg and Mike Dillard have never built a large Network Marketing Organization] proves you do not know what you are talking about.
My Two Cents
@Jerry: Mike has always been available to answer my questions or he's played a role in getting me an answer. I find it hard to believe that he would deliberately not reply to you. It's not his MO. And he didn't know me from Adam when I first contacted him.
@Carlos: I was wondering the very same thing about Jerry.
@ Eric: You're right about people not marketing it. But, what's ironic is if you ask people who have it why not, they'll say, "I don't know how". OMG! Here they are inside the university equivalant to a 4 year degree in online marketing with the "how to" right in front of them.
I for one have tried to be an implementor of what Mike teaches. I've made mistakes and he's even emailed about helping me when he spotted one. I wanted success like I wanted to breathe. So, inasmuch as nobody likes a learning curve, I was excited about all that Mike, Mike and Ann had to teach so I was a sponge. The more I had learned, the more grateful I was for systems and programs like Renegade University and Ann's program and Mike's stuff. This is over the top value for the peanuts we pay to have it.
When I market RU, I don't stop at just "oh, look at all this training". I also share the value of having a training platform branded to ourselves which gives us instant credibility and posture (my newbie's love it) and of course, Mike pays us very well for referring others.
I'm quite excited about seeing the unveiling of the new Renegade University.
@ Peter: I agree, balance in the marketing, a variety of ways and like Mike said the other night on his training call, discover what you love and then go for that marketing strategy with everything you got. Over the next 2, 3 years, we can be leveraged on specific keywords and dominate our repsective industries on that.
@Mike Klinger: I hope "when I grow up", you'll know my journey and work enough to recommend me as a coach as well. LOL. Seriously, I use your system everyday, I train and coach on it, and if I can ever do anything for you, regardless of how small you may feel it is, I'd be thrilled to pay it back to ya for all you've done for so many of us.
Good Thoughts Here and the Big Picture
Hi Eric,
You've brought up some good points and really sparked an interesting discussion here. As far as Jerry's comment goes, having worked cross-line with Ann Sieg in a former company we were in and now having her in my downline in a current company, I can testify that she has indeed been successful at building a large network marketing organization.
I believe that it is important for people to see the "big picture" of attraction marketing and utilizing the power of the internet. First it does take time, as you pointed out, to create enough content if you are utilizing the free and inexpensive methods of marketing introduced and taught in Ann's Renegade system and Renegade University. And yes, as Lane pointed out PPC is attraction marketing, when done right. PPC can yield quicker results but can result in wasting a lot of money if the person doesn't know what he or she is doing. Perhaps the challenge in utilzing the free and inexpensive methods of creating content, is that for each person the amount of content they need will be different. Each person's niche market, writing style, personality, and target audience and starting point is different.
I have seen people generate leads and income within their first month of applying the principles of attraction marketing, but I always caution people that I have also seen others consistently plugging away for much longer - even 12 months - before they see a return on the time spent. The real value I see with creating content on the internet is that once you have content out there, you can keep reaping the benefits over and over again and it starts to build like a snowball rolling down a hill. But it usually takes time.
Unfortunately in our age of instant-gratification, people give up too soon, or as others have mentioned, never even get started. The truth is to be a successful entrepreneur, it takes a tenacious spirit. You need to be prepared to make mistakes, have setbacks and keep moving forward, no matter what methods you choose in marketing your business.
Because everyone has a different learning curve, and length of time it will take to see results, I recommend a balanced approach to marketing. It doesn't have to be an either-or choice. As someone already mentioned, a successful veteran "old-school" marketer is starting to develop his online marketing presence. Just because a person's focus may be on attraction marketing on the internet doesn't mean they can't market their product or service locally and bring in some immediate income.
When people get the "Big Picture" of what attraction marketing is about they will see that the principles and strategies taught in Ann's Renegade system and Mike's Renegade University can be applied to ANY business, not just network marketing. Traditional businesses could benefit greatly from the education they would get in these resources. So many business have websites that are no more than expensive business cards - no one visits the websites unless they are being sent there via offline methods or the visitors are existing customers.
Over the years I have seen highly skilled people do nothing with their business and others who really started at ground zero take the steps they needed to learn and build their business. The great thing is there are resources like the Renegade system and Renegade University to help people shorten their learning curve and avoid the mistakes that Ann, I and countless others who have been in the industry for a while, have made.
The truth is the internet is where people go for information these days, so if you are not tapping into it, you are missing out. As a now-single, homeschooling mom of three kids, I simply would not be able to build a business and create enough income through the "old school" methods and still have the time I have with my children. When you get the "Big Picture" of attraction marketing it is empowering.
Not Much More To Say Than This
There is already so much depth and information in Eric's article and the comments that there is not much more to add except for this. Whether it's Renegade U., Magnetic Sponsoring, Ann Sieg or old school network marketing...none of it is worth anything without action. Not the action of reading the books or watching the videos and taking notes. I'm talking about the action deep within your being that says," I am going to do this!" and then taking that internal action and making it real in your day-to-day life.
Taking action means doing it every day; learning something new and implementing it; pushing your own personal envelop and when you reach the edge, pushing it even more. There is great value in many different systems and methods. I too think Renegade U. is awesome and use it regularly with my MLM coaching clients. But it has as high of a "failure" rate as others because the percentage of people who never TAKE ACTION remains the same across all programs. Are you going to be one of them or one of the successful ones? Only you can decide.
Thank you Eric for your insight once again,
Deborah
Renegade University is worth every penny to me...but
I have been a Renegade University student for a few months. I find the resources excellent. However, there are some things I simply cannot afford; such as the HubPages. That is really out of my league, as is a Flip camera at the moment. I know what I need to do as the program is a clear series of steps.
I have authored one article and it was accepted by EzineArticles, however, they thought I had too many 'self serving' links. My links were about veganism and Multiple Sclerosis. How is that self serving I ask? Like I have stock in PeTA or the National Multiple Sclerosis Society? I found them to a bit off base. I have not yet posted the article to other ezines. I am taking it one step at a time.
In short, you get out of it what you put into it. I wish I could go more rapidly, however, I can't sit at the computer all day and night, although it sure seems like I do!! You must understand that I am an Herbalife 'refugee' and that stupid company is still sending me stuff, like my Supervisor pins which I became in May of last year. They sent the silly pins and a certificate in December and I quit in August!!!! So, yes, things could be a LOT worse! Renegade University and Marketing Merge are great and I definitely shopped around.
Elle
Elle..answer to your concerns
To Elle..
Hub pages cost nothing...something about them must be confusing you. They are excellent in terms of getting an audience. I do not have a flip either..I make my videos using my regular digital camera. Ezines asks that all your links take place in your signature box and that your article is information with no links or redirects. Let me know if you have other stumbling blocks..you are on the right path.
Deborah Tutnauer, LCSW
I am new to Renegade University - Here's my take on it
Hi everyone
I have read all the comments with great interest because I have just joined Renegade University and I think you may be interested to hear my take on it. I come from a traditional network background, having worked with Herbalife for 4 years and then moved to Agel to work with Randy Gage.
I have experienced the best and the worst of the industry, both making lots of money and losing lots over the years also! (The worst was in Herbalife but still I am very grateful for all of the good stuff I learned there, which inspired me to stay in the business)
What I wanted to share with you was that I checked out RU last October and I didn't go ahead with it because although I could see immediately that Mike Klinger is genuine (I can't recall how but I certainly felt that immediately) I was put off by the advertising messages aaround Ann Sieg.
At that time I wrote a blog post which more or less said that although I am very in favour of attraction marketing (that is after all what all successful leaders are doing, in both models) I didn't think that all of the negative messages on Google are helping us as an industry.
(@Jerry I felt a little bit like you I think at that time. I was slightly cross and irritated by the whole thing!) The reason for it was that like @Joyce I have achieved success with online and offline methods. I am fortunate to have a sponsorship line which teaches the principles of Network Marketing with brilliance. After all who am I to second guess Randy Gage and Eric Worre when they are building huge networks very fast and people are achieving amazing incomes.
What worried me about the online model is the participants can be so derogatory about anything not online! There are some obvious problems with only focussing online such as it can take much longer to get a new person started because they have to learn so much just to get some content online.
The other drawback which is very clear to me is that if you want to build a global business it is very difficult to teach attraction marketing if your downline is not fluent in written English. ( I have a large downline in Nigeria and although most of them speak excellent English they are often challenged with the written aspect)
This is why I think that leaders such as Randy Gage cannot with integrity teach a model that cannot be duplicated by everyone in a huge organisation over all countries, languages and time zones. (Any positive suggestions on this will be well received)
Anyhow there is so much to say on such an interesting subject but to wrap up I want to say this: I decided to research RU in more detail because I have had great success using the internet but didn't know where to start trying to teach my downline all these skills I have learned over the last couple of years. (Interesting that I managed to find the information even without my upline pointing me to it! It is after all freely available and my sponsorship line advocates doing the core activities and whatever else you want to do is 'in addition to.' I think that's fair enough and displays good solid leadership)
I now regret not enrolling as Professional when I first found the RU because after being 'inside' a couple of days I am like a kid in a candy store. I've learned how to automate my many leads into email campaigns and have been able to pull in my magnetic sponsoring affiliate link to work with the funded proposal. It is one giant cash machine and anyone who is willing to apply themselves long term can only win.
It is naive to think that everyone will succeed because 'everyone' never takes the action required. That will never change! The 80/20 rule will apply across the board but for those with a genuine desire to learn - even if you don't want to use the RU as a funded proposal, you can create endless content and even learn how to make your own products outside of NM.
I'd like to say a special thanks to Mike Klingler who in my book displays the patience of a saint in his training! I'm thinking 'wow even my really non techie guys can get this if they want to!' Mike also responded to my Facebook message within 1 day, and to be honest even if he hadn't so what? All the info is in there to follow step by step. Only catch is (same ole, same ole... you need to work!)
On closing I have since read Ann Sieg's complete book and I can see how many people would instantly relate to her. What I would like to see is less 'lumping in of all the companies into 1 big barrel of 'old school.' There are many new companies who teach systems that allow even illiterate people to succeed in our industry. I understand that there is an element of shock marketing here to get atttention and most of the negative stuff comes from affiliates applying it in their own special way!
The NM Revolution is underway with many of the 'old school' leaders at the front of it, giving their take on what has to change so that is a great thing. After all we can build all the fabulous content online we want but we must have an inspiring leadership culture and company to back that up so knocking all the companies is not for our greater good.
Thanks for reading and I wish you all incredible success!
Rachel Henke
http://www.RachelHenke.com
Marketing and 97% Internet Marketing Failure Rate
After reading Eric's article and all the comments I have only one point I want to make. Our US economy is in real trouble. Up front I must admit that I have been involved in "trying" to learn the internet marketing ropes for just short of two (2) years. Yes, I have read Ann's materials. Yes, I am currently following Mike Dillard and his Magnetic Sponsoring model.
The problem as I see it is that a 97% failure rate for those who attempt to start a home based business is absolutely demoralizing. The general public will grow to distrust marketing in all forms as long as the HYPE leads are used to "sucker" them into a funnel that is designed to make it sound simple and then they discover another after another product is offered to "really" make it work. No wonder there is a lack of trust factor screaming at the industry. With rare exception the people I talk with about the internet and information/systems marketing the comment is, "If you're smart you'll stay away from it."
The problem I see is the world is changing very rapidly; the industrial revolution is gone forever, manufacturing within the US isn't far behind. Automation is taking over extremely rapidly. We even have tractors that can till the soil and harvesting machines that can harvest the crops without any human being on board; automated like the pilotless airplanes. Do you know that we even have automated milking machines with on call service to the cow? Yes, the cow decides when she needs to be milked and system is designed to accommodate her without regard to a person being present. This is truly revolutionary to me because I was raised on a small dairy farm in North Texas. We milked by hand before we got electricity and then upgraded to electric milking machines. Now you know how old I am.
Back to my main point; our US economy is in real trouble. The government is absolutely incapable of restoring the US economy regardless of who is at the helm. We need systems that work 97% of the time not techniques or strategies with a 97% failure rate. I recently posted an article on BN entitled "Keep HOPE Alive - Restore our US Economy Now. In my humble opinion we don't have time to waste on "trying to convince" people that very sophisticated marketing systems and training will add significantly to our American way of life. And unfortunately, the public schools are not structured to teach entrepreneurialship whether it be through the internet or otherwise.
So, the only strategy I see that can be unleashed to help restore the US Economy within the next 18 or so months is the "Pay It Forward Movement". I believe very strongly that we must first find a way to help each newbie become somewhat financially stagle in his or her new venture before we overload him or her with five tons of information and systems garbage. Yes, I know much of it isn't garbage; but, that is how it will be judged if we don't find a way to improve the success rate.
Respectfully submitted, Dr. H. Glenn Davis
My Perspective From A Very Old School Foundation
Hey Eric,
Thank you for initiating such a lively and informative discussion. I am relatively new to network marketing but am confident that it holds the key to the future of business.
After thirty years of sales and sales management experience the one inevitable truth is that change is constant. Don't complain about it, embrace it. Learning is a life long enterprise and it will keep you young. I am probably a contemporary of Dr. Davis, as I remember distinctly, in the early days of my sales career, needing to find a pay phone to call the office for my messages.
The reality of attraction marketing, in whatever form you embrace it, is that it is not a new concept. In the old days of business to business selling, it was known by such names as strategic selling, value added selling or relationship selling. The point here is that you must first provide a reason for your cusatomer to buy from you. You need to demonstrate not only that you know what you are talking about, but also that you can be trusted in the solutions that you provide. Sound familiar? Many of my former customers did business with my company because of me (You, Inc.). They knew that if I made a suggestion regarding their business that it would work out in their best interest. This advice was always offered free of charge, but the end result was increased business for my company. Ring a bell?
Attraction marketing takes these time tested methods and skillfully applies them to a new medium; the internet. I whole heartedly endorse this as a business strategy for anyone that wants to have a successful career as an internet marketer.
97% failure
I appreciate Glenn Davis remarks very much I have been in MLM since 2005 and have yet to find a perfect program. I entered this business after I retired and looked at it as a way to establish a business without knocking on doors to sell a product or personal contact on a daily basis. I strictly wanted an online business.
The first thing I did was the emails to my list with a personal follow up letter , what a dud that was absolutely zero replies. That didn't get me down only made me dig in further even with my spouses repeated remarks "I told u it was a rip off".
My sponsor reccommend a fast start program thru another company site that cost more money, that site was a great pumped up site but I didn't need to be pumped up I needed results, money, money, money. I also found the my back office very technically challenging even with the numerous videos and scripts, it was taking hours to just to set it up and then I never could understand how they intended me to use my email autoreponder. I refused to let this get me down and I stopped talking to my spouse about my business until she saw my credit card bill (lol)
I was recieving offers in my email by then from all sorts of internet materials and Ann Sieg was one of them. I decided to purchase her on line book because the the words " 7 great lies of networking marketing " I simply wanted to find out what they were. Guess what I was doing everything that she said not to do and getting the results she predicted I would get. I started to take her reccomendations and bought "Site Build It" and then found out it was to expensive and I really didn't need it I already had my own website from my MLM company, and besides it also was technically challenged, I don't understand why all these people claim thier programs are instant and not technically challenged for a newbie. People like me can only get so far into this technology and at some point get lost in the detail.
The one thing Ann's program opened my eyes about was "affliate marketing". I am still batteling the technology but have since been eyeing affliate marketing as a way to fund my MLM business.
I still gets tons of internet marketing propositions but have settled into 4 affliates and still doing emails to capture leads. I am still looking for the perfect system but untill its invented I am trying not to be in that 97%.
PS: I did my first Blog last week and still don't know how to locate it on the intenet LOL but I know its out there somewhere.
PPC and Attraction Marketing
I am actively involved in one of Mike Dillards co founded turn-key business in a box systems if that doesn't give the game away too much.
In the training he states categoriacally he considers PPC to be the best way to get leads hence PPC Dominator launched by him. So lets clear that up he is a big fan of PPC. However he is also a very contradictory soul in this market. In another of his books he says don't waste money on PPC concentrate on building up a reputation using free methods and leads will follow. Well I have for the last 4 weeks followed the free methods outlined in the book to the letter result not one lead. In fact I am begining to feel the money I spent for the book on free methods would have been better spent on PPC because at least I was getting leads that way.
He and others also say don't use the pre-built glossy websites that come with your company instead brand yourself. Well again it's not what is said when using their marketing systems, they say their is no point in building your own website because we have provided x no. for you. Not only that we have spent x$ making them the best why should you waste time building your own.
I believe to use attraction marketing techniques alone when you first start and hope to suceed is why there is such a high drop out rate. There are 20% who probably do "get it" much quicker than others for the other 80% the learning curve is steeper to varying degreess.
This means whilst we are learning, hypotic copywriting, Web 2.0, Blogging regularly, pinging, RSS feeds, link backs, twitter, mini sites, My Space, Facebook, You Tube, auto responder campaigns and still have a full-time job with the aim of becoming financially free in the new business - paying for advertising and slowly building a reputation as an expert is the only viable way forward. I for one realise I am in it for the long haul I just feel sorry for people lured in thinking they will make thousands in month one and when they don't drop out pretty quick.
yep
it thought it was rather appearant what Mike did with Mark Wieser. I guess Jerry hasn't done much research. Mike put in a great deal of effort to get out of that crappy job waiting tables in Austin. C'mon, to sell your mountain bike just to get by? Not everyone is that dedicated! Look where it got him today. We all wouldn't be here if it weren't for Mike. I'm talking about Better Networker. I thought this turned out pretty cool! I like some of these posts! Not bad, not bad at all. I mean c'mon, WHERE ELSE will someone say how to make a six figure income by dropping a zero off the end of their check? You don't hear THAT every day. :)
wow
I'm getting dizzy myself.
What in the world are they thinking?
I recently developed an interest in Renegade University and in my search for information I have found a distinct pattern amongst Renegade alumni. This is a situation that seems to permeate the entire attraction marketing community. However, it seems to be running rampant amongst Renegade alumni.
The problem that I am seeing is not the failure of people to apply their attraction marketing training. Some are actually doing an outstanding job of doing that. The problem is that they seem to have the concept that all they have to do is attract people and that will make them successful. Perhaps they have the notion that people are going to automatically sign up with Renegade University through them just because they have been somewhat successful in attracting that prospect with their attraction marketing techniques. Well guess what? Personally, I am not going to sign up with any major opportunity through a lead capture page or an autoresponder link. It's not happening!
I went through one affiliate's link to find my self in never- never land. After several weeks of autoresponder communications, I had pretty much determined that neither one of us knew that the other person even existed and decided to move on. Then I came across several people here on BetterNetworker that seemed to be heavily involved. I sent each a email and never received a response. What is the use of going into a community like this, setting all the right traps and then signing back in 3 or 4 months later to pick up your prey? Give me a break! This mentality not only exists with Renegade people, it seems to be pretty common throughout the entire attraction marketing community. If these people think the fish or just going to jump in the boat, they need to think again.
At some point the attraction marketing needs to turn into relationship marketing. It needs to become a people business. Even if you do get a few people to blindly sign up through your links, without developing and culturing business and personal relationships with these people, you have done both yourself and your new recruit a great disservice. You have done nothing more than earn a quick commission. Of course there is never anything wrong with earning money. However, you have done nothing to really build your business long term.
I have found outstanding presentations for many different opportunities out there. But 99% of the time I wind up in this never-never land. What is wrong with these people? What are they thinking?
I have finally got into Renegade U through an affiliate that actually communicated on a personal level, responded to my signup and is providing some training info through a newsletter. So this goes to show that it's not all a lost cause. There is the 1% out there that seem to have a clue.
Only Been With RU Since Oct
I am 51 years old. I started a home business for the first time 5 years ago. I'm a stay at home , work at home mom and grandmother. The only idea of a home based business that I knew of was going out and selling and delivering products or having home parties, neither of that appealed to me. I wanted something where I didn't have to do that. With my age I was thinking old school. Yep.
I found a business on line where I didn't have to sell, stock or deliver products. The business is Melaleuca Inc. For 5 years I have worked my business through all the old traditional methods, I joined local networking groups, used business cards, flyers, posted ads on line and off in news papers etc. I have also purchased thousands of dollars worth of leads and spent thousands on PPC that got me nothing. My business has done well up until the last year and half. But I've spent a lot of money to keep it afloat and so has many other people in my organization. They have all slowly stopped working or cancelled because it was costing more to work the business than they were making. My business started to go downhill. Instead of me stopping working and loosing faith in myself, the company and our products because I think that Melaleuca is a great company, I started searching the internet for every tid bit I could find about online marketing and social networking. Now I'm talking about a person here that had to have somebody else to set up my My Space Page. I knew there had to be a better way and I wanted to be able to help other people that I was working with and brining into my business.
I ran across Renegade University I think on my space. I had an e-mail on there from Mike Dillard. I checked it out took the $1 trial and couldn't belive what I saw. To me it was amazing , just what I had been looking for. Even though I have a great training and support team with my business, they provide us with two free websites and a lot of training they don't teach what's in Renegade University. Everything on there was new to me and I know if the information was new to me it would be welcomed as well by many other people. Since then our training and support team has had a little live training on social networking and about using facebook as a way to build your business but after learning from RU I didn't agree with some of the things that were taught.
Renegade University can be quite overwheling for a person like myself. I jumped in with both feet to learn everything I could learn. It has been worth every penny to me. I've got some things in place but I also know that it will take some time to properly use Attraction Marketing. I have gone over some of the training again. Thats one good thing about RU. You can go back over and over it to help it sink in. You have to learn and then apply what you have learned. If you don't apply what's taught of course its not going to work for me, you or anybody else. I have worked on a couple bloggs, Squidoo Lenses, started some articles, bought a flip camera, I have several profiles set up on social networks and do social networking appropriately and put a few other things in place. I'm still a newbie and still have a lot to learn and a lot to put in place. But I feel confident if I contiue to move forward RU and Attraction Marketing will work for me and anyone else who applies it.
Now this Better Networker site I an still ahving issues with it. I can't reply to people posts to add to discussions. When I click on the link in the e-mail I'm sent it only goes to my profile so I have no idea where the discussion is. I have sent and ask a few people about this but can't seem to figure it out or I would be in a lot of discussions.
I would love to talk to anyone that I can help out e-mail me myjobilove2004@verizon.net
Karla Mohr
That Sure Sends Out a Signal
@ Jerry
"The 7 Greatest Lies of Network Marketing. That sure sends out a signal about network marketing, doesn't it? Imagine a potential prospect reads some hype from some sponsor monster. The Prospect googles "Network Marketing". What comes back?... four or five negative google adds to attract a neutral prospect, who is rapidly becoming a bad prospect. The bad prospect confirms all the other negative trash they hear about network marketing when T7GLofNM is read. Even if they invest $67 in Renegade, he realizes You just made $33 on the purchase"
Then I don't want this kind of prospect. There's another kind of person lurking out their other than naysayers. That's the conspiracy theorist.
I have a friend that believes and feels that most everyone is out to get him in some way. Even when I've showed him my own websites, he tries to figure out how I'm trying to lure him in.
The conspiracy theorist, upon realizing that you get $33, proves himself right again! Aha! They get a kick off of feeling they're right.
A person that "gets it" realizes the genius and the value being taught in the Renegade Network Marketer and Magnetic Sposoring. There's nothing selfish about it. A complete win/win.