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[joseph young Company: Ignite Contribution Level: 2]

I like using analogies in my writing. How effective they are, uhmmmm, remains to be seen. I would really enjoy your feedback about my use of copy in writing articles and blog posts. Below is a sample of what I like to do to convey a point. Thanks!

http://www.betternetworker.com/articles ... st-century

Best,
Joe Young

[Rob Hammond Company: Global Virtual Opportunities Contribution Level: 4]

Great! Telling stories always helps people slow down and read.
Better yet: tell stories about what's actually going on in the world today, especially your own life.
But you've got a knack for telling stories and drawing lessons from those stories. That talent will serve you well.
Keep Rocking,
Rob

[Daniel Attard Company: Neways Worldwide Contribution Level: 3]

No self promotional links in the forum. Read the BN rules for more info...

Daniel Attard

[joseph young Company: Ignite Contribution Level: 2]

Hi Rob,
thanks for the comment! I do like telling stories, but, you are right, stories of the right now and what is happening can speak far more clearer.

@Daniel Not sure what you mean, as I did not promote a self-promotion link. My article resides on BN and the only link I have is what others have on BN, a link back to their main blog. ?

But thanks for the reminder! I want to comply in every way as that I am a member and student of Magnetic Sponsoring and own every piece of material created there.


Joe

[Daniel Attard Company: Neways Worldwide Contribution Level: 3]

If you are promoting YOUR article then it is promoting yourself regardless if its on BN or not. You can only put generic links here on the forum.

Daniel Attard

[Don Hill Contribution Level: 2]

Mouse on over to the scrollbar everyone! I've decided to add my 98 cents worth to this thread!

(My 98 cents + Your 2 cents = 1 DOLLAR!)

@Daniel:

I'm a little bit confused and I could use your help in clarifying a few things...

Could you please define what you meant when you said that only "generic links" are permitted here in the Forums, as I can find no reference at all to "generic links" in the BetterNetworker Rules and Guidelines, located HERE.

(Is that what you meant by a "generic link" - like the one used in the word "HERE" in the above paragraph? But I digress...)

The first rule under "General Rules:" reads:

Do NOT post content that is blatantly self-serving (i.e. pitching your business or affiliate offers unrelated to the context).

Joe began this thread with an invitation for people to critique his BN article, and in particular his writing style. I would hardly consider that to be "blatantly self-serving," since Joe is publicly opening himself up to criticism - about his writing style - and soliciting opinion about its quality. (Joe was actually taking quite a risk, since there's a possibility that someone could easily choose to unfairly abuse Joe and his writing just to draw attention to themselves.)

The link to Joe's article certainly can't be considered to be "unrelated to the context" of this thread since the writing style embodied by that article IS - by definition - the exact context of this thread.

Joe's post clearly doesn't violate any of the remaining rules under "General Rules" either, so let's move along to the section titled "Forum Rules," which are specifically applicable to posting in the forums, as a further extension of the "General Rules."

I'm sorry Daniel, but I can't find anything prohibiting "self-promotion" anywhere in the Forum Rules either! Are you referring to the very first rule, which reads:

Do NOT post any kind of sales pitch for your business, or affiliate product in the forum. This is called "forum spam". Your account will be banned immediately without warning if you do so, and the offending posts will be deleted.

Please notice the underlined phrase "in the forum," which I interpret to mean "within the body" of the post, and thus the rule applies to the informational content of the post itself. I see no clear reference to Joe's "business or affiliate product" in his post, so he's not in violation of this rule either!

The last four rules concerning the Forums pertaining to the use of "signatures," which are allowed as an incentive for people to post quality - and relevant - content, on a subject likely to be interesting and engaging for other members. (That's not a "rule" - it's just my own personal observation of standard practices observed by forums that I participate in - including the forum I moderate on a different site. In fact, it's a social site that's rather infamous for being extremely "spammy." At the risk of appearing "self-promoting," the forum I moderate there has the highest post-per-topic ratio on the whole site - which means that people aren't just posting in it - they're replying to each other as well!)

Signatures are generally allowed a means of rewarding people for their constructive contributions in the forums (allowing them the equivalent of a brief "elevator speech" if you will). BN restricts our signatures to only 255 characters, including the URL of any website we choose to link to, in order to avoid "signature spam" where someone could simply post "I agree with you," followed by a 30-line signature containing link after link to different affiliate products or offshore sites selling little blue pills and oxycontin by the truckload.

In the dwindling number of forums that even allow their members to use "signatures" at all, a member is usually allowed to include a link to a target website of their own choice - as long as it doesn't lead to anything illegal or "immoral," or is in violation of any of the other rules.

As I write this, Joe doesn't even have his forum signature set up yet!

(@Joe - To do that, just click on "User Control Panel" to the upper left, then click on the "Profile" tab to set up your signature. The editor is the same as the one we use to post here.)


In fact, you (Daniel) choose to use a signature that includes a link to your blog, which resides at a dot-com bearing your full name. If that's not "self-promotion," then I'm afraid I've misunderstood what that term means as well!

Thus, if anyone in this thread is engaging in "self-promotion," Daniel, you are!

I have no problem with that, because you've done it right - but so has Joe! In fact, Joe may have gone us both one better and attracted more people to himself than either of our signatures!

Believe me, Daniel - I, of all people, understand the need to protect this environment from those who would charge in and litter the landscape with their ugly "handbills." I'm with you 1,000% on that. But we still have to be careful and not be too quick to judge. If Joe's - or anyone else's - post violates the rules, "Carl the Forum Cop" (Tim Erway) will take care of it. Joe's response to your challenge indicates to me that he has both integrity and a willingness to adhere to the established community's rules.

You and I both know that's pretty rare everywhere these days - especially online!

If I'm incorrect about anything I've posted here, I cordially invite the Admin and/or Moderator to notify me accordingly, and set me straight, and I'll gladly post a public retraction/correction of anything I got wrong in this reply.

I also believe the Rules could probably stand a little clarification in this area so that such misunderstandings about their intent are less likely in the future.

Now I'm off to read Joe's article...

[Daniel Attard Company: Neways Worldwide Contribution Level: 3]

Self promotion means dropping a link for your own benefit (getting more traffic, more readership etc) Now sometime ago a number of people were putting up posts like:

1) Check out my article about subject X!

2) Please comment on my article!

Now if EVERYONE ends up doing such a thing the forum will end up a place were people advertise their own articles. The forum is meant for conversations, questions and discussions ONLY.

If you are to give a link...then in no way you must benefit from it. I thought that is the way things get along around here.

As for my "self-promotion", my link is in my signature which is fully acceptable.

Daniel Attard

[Don Hill Contribution Level: 2]

At least we're in agreement about signatures, Daniel - common ground is always a good thing when communicating with someone.

My only question for you (and to anyone else wishing to add their perspective) is this:

If Joe's original post is in direct conflict with the established rules - written or unwritten - then why has the Moderator (Tim) allowed it to remain, and not simply deleted Joe's post outright?

I confess that I've only recently returned to BetterNetworker after nearly two years absence (I'm one of the "founding" members, joining the day Mike Dillard created Magnetic Sponsoring Online - BetterNetworker's original name), and I was completely unaware of the situation you referred to until your most recent reply.

Joe, being a relatively new member, was also unaware of his "transgression."

That having been said, perhaps a revision of the Rules is in order - with a clearer explanation of what is - and is not - permitted. The broad brush of "self-promotion" can be quite ambiguous, and subject to just as broad an interpretation, depending a great deal on the perspective of "the beholder" (as this thread has exposed).

As I said previously, everyone posting in the Forums is engaging in a form of "self-promotion," even when they engage in constructive conversation. As such, it would be beneficial to have clearly-drawn (and defined) lines which should not be crossed, so that confusion such as this is minimized if not eliminated altogether.

It seems to me that this thread has revealed a deficiency in the rules which should be corrected to reflect the actual "social" conditions under which a post is deemed appropriate or not. Even the Constitution requires amending from time to time...

Tim, I'd appreciate your input on this - public or private (preferably the former).

I can appreciate your point of view, Daniel - even though I'm not sure I'm in total agreement with it. I have to deal with "cheaters" on a regular basis as a moderator elsewhere, so I understand why you were quick to chastise Joe.

I think we both fundamentally want the same thing - to have a Forum where ideas can be freely exchanged - and debated - without shameless and inconsiderate self-promotion, which is our very real common enemy.

As you can see, a conversation has been started, even if only between yourself and me - albeit that it has strayed from the topic of the original post by Joe.

I suppose only time (and any further input from others) will tell whether it's a constructive one or not.

[Mario Sanders Company: Life Force International Contribution Level: 6]

I like using words of play in my articles.
This is what brands me as an authority. I can express myself to the public and they will listen to what I have to say.
This is your business and you run it any way you feel that will get the response you intented to give out.
By writing your articles, you are expressing yourself and your readers are getting to know you and also your products and what you are all about.
Keep writing articles and comments on those play of words. If it works well keep on doing the same. But later on you find that those words become old and run down, then you know it does not work any longer. Then you can change before you are branded with an old idea and you are running the thought into the ground.