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[Melvin Goodrum Company: AdvoCare International, L.P. Contribution Level: 4]

I have learned a cool tip today from a Tom Big Al Schrieter CD called how to Manipulate prospects minds for fun and profit. A cool one that I am using is There are two types of people in the world: Tom Big Al Schrieter says that if that person does not lean forward using this specific one, you do not want him in your downline.

Here is how it goes:

There are two types of people in the world the bosses that make all the money and the slaves that make them rich.

Lawrence Bergfeld

That's a pretty assine statement from Al and its horrible advice. Why would you do something as dishonest as manipulating your clients??? To me that's cutting corners, not "earning the right" for them to be your associate, and gives a black eye to the network marketing industry. Its part of the reason why some people are disgusted with it.


You don't need to manipulate people. You simply need to convey a clear and concise message. Tell it like it is and explain the business to folks. People will sign up willingly if you present yourself in an honest manner. The word "manipulate" should never be in any network marketer's vocabulary.

[Jim Ticehurst Contribution Level: 4]

I have to say this: I have followed Big Al for a long while now (purely as an unpaid subscriber) and I think that the word 'Manipulate' is completely out of context and character when used quoting anything that he says. Did he actually use that word or was that a word that you chose to use.
Big Al's style of selling is different to the style promoted on this board but his Forum was up and running before Betternetworker was even ever thought of.
I quite recently asked Big Al if it would be possible for me to arrange for him to put on a seminar in Reno (he was doing one in Saremento and then flying on to Las Vegas to do one so Reno was kind of in the middle) he said that he would, and when I asked how much he wanted to be paid he said $10 a person. That is the sort of character that he is. Superb.
I have read a lot of his material and he treats everybody with total respect, regards Jim T.

[Rob Wynkoop Company: ViSalus Sciences Contribution Level: 3]

The word manipulate is used tongue-in-cheek ... He's a funny guy and has great material.

[Melvin Goodrum Company: AdvoCare International, L.P. Contribution Level: 4]

The word manipulate is used tongue-in-cheek ... He's a funny guy and has great material.

If Al wants to be funny then he needs to go join a circus. I personally don't find it funny at all or consider it "tougue in cheek". I'm not going to try to determine whether he's serious or not but I'm going to stay away from listening to this guy.

[Jared Hathorn Contribution Level: 3]

The word manipulate has been said loosely from many people. Certain words are said loosely from many people. Sometimes the majority of the world has changed the meaning of words that are away from the English dictionary. I am sure everyone of us has taken a word and used it in a meaning that is not in the English dictionary.

Let us look at magic for a minute. When we see a magic trick is it really magic? It is not magic but only an illusion of what we see happen.

So why do we still call it magic?

Are we wrong for calling it magic?

I also know that we can not judge a book by its cover. Before we judge what is being on the cover we need to read the book. I know many of us who have written books or E-books about network marketing or anything has come across people who misunderstood them just from the title.

I know that the majority of people have a hard time conveying their messages to people. Many people would listen but how it was said come out wrong. Tom Big Al has said it is not what we say but how we say it. I believe that he is only showing us how to say what we mean so people would see more clearly what we offer. When a message is said clearly we get more results. Given the illusion of manipulation. Not really manipulating but again the illusion of.

[Philipp Knechtle Company: GiveOpp Contribution Level: 1]

Frank Kern calls it "Core Influence" and it is indeed manipulation. But manipulation in a neutral sense. We manipulate matter as creators just like a potter molds the clay. So therefore any leader is a manipulator as he manipulates the minds of his followers and influences them, guides them. Like any teacher, any singer, any boss. It's simply a position of power (knowing) & when power is combined with love we have true leadership When power is not being combined with love and simply being used for unethical purposes we have someone getting kicks from bossing people around.
I like the first one

[Rob Hammond Company: Global Virtual Opportunities Contribution Level: 4]

As marketers, if we simply learn how the psychology of people WORKS, we can definitely manipulate people in any way we want, but WHY would we? If our goal is to share VALUE, we may deliberately guide people towards value, but we have an ethical responsibility to not be manipulative.
It's a touchy semantics argument.
Keep Rocking,
Rob

[Tony Echavarry Company: ViSalus Sciences Contribution Level: 2]

Melvin,

I think you need to lighten up a lot !!! Tom is one of the most well liked & respected MLM leaders and trainers anywhere in the world. You should research him before making comments like you have. His training is wonderful & useful to anyone in this great industry.

He uses stories & humor to make his points and that is all he did with that title, it wasn't to try and hurt nor manipulate anyone. I could say much more, but hopefully you get the point, and I really hope you get to listen to some of Tom's training one day, because I really feel you could benefit.

Tony

[Melvin Goodrum Company: AdvoCare International, L.P. Contribution Level: 4]

Melvin,

I think you need to lighten up a lot !!! Tom is one of the most well liked & respected MLM leaders and trainers anywhere in the world. You should research him before making comments like you have. His training is wonderful & useful to anyone in this great industry.

He uses stories & humor to make his points and that is all he did with that title, it wasn't to try and hurt nor manipulate anyone. I could say much more, but hopefully you get the point, and I really hope you get to listen to some of Tom's training one day, because I really feel you could benefit.

Tony

Lets look up the word manipulate. The two I didn't highlight have nothing to do with business whereas the other two meanings do.


1. To move, arrange, operate, or control by the hands or by mechanical means, especially in a skillful manner: She manipulated the lights to get just the effect she wanted.
2. To influence or manage shrewdly or deviously: He manipulated public opinion in his favor.
3. To tamper with or falsify for personal gain: tried to manipulate stock prices.
4. Medicine To handle and move in an examination or for therapeutic purposes: manipulate a joint; manipulate the position of a fetus during delivery.


I don't need to lighten up because I know what manipulate is and its not a word you want to use or apply in any form of business. You don't joke about manipulating, tricking, tampering, or falsifying anything. When you do so, you not only lose the trust of your customers but you also gain their wrath. I got fooled into signing up for a business in '97 because the information given to me was manipulated to where I could not make an informed decision on the business opportunity. As a result, I lost a ton of money.

People have sold tons of products and signed associates through manipulation. Acai Berry and Mangosteen items touted to cure cancer, AIDS, and the bubonic plague. Prospects told that they would make $10,000 dollars in their first week in business, etc. Its no different than those commericals that tell you every wonderful thing in the world but then leave a paragraph in unreadable letters at the bottom of the page for a glancing second. Its this type of trickery than makes people sick to their stomach when they are approached by a sales associate.


Now just ask yourself this question, Tony.....Would you mind if you were manipulated???.

[Tony Echavarry Company: ViSalus Sciences Contribution Level: 2]

Melvin,

Geeez, I stick by my original post, YOU seriously need to lighten up ! You are blowing this way out of proportion & missing the whole point of Tom's training.

Tony