Forums

[Philip Wong Contribution Level: 2]

Dear Members

There are a plethora of copywriting courses from various mentors/gurus out there and honestly, it can be confusing.

Yanik Silver, Bob Bly, Joe Vitale, Ken McCarthy, Gary Halbert, John Carlton just to name a few.

Can I ask who is your favourite copywriting mentor/guru and why?

Thanks and regards
Phil.

[Justin Christianson Contribution Level: 2]

There are many different copywriting "Gurus" out there.

Each copywriter has their own unique style and presentation.

Personally, I use bits and pieces from them all. This allows me to get the best of everything and incorporate it into my own writing style.

Basically, most all of them use the same format, but it all comes down to what they say, and the psychology behind each line and paragraph in their work.

If you are studying copywriting, it is hard to pick. Kind of like the old Lays Potato Chips commercial. "You can't have just one!"

Yanik Silver has a great course out there on copywriting, so does Dan Kennedy, along with many other ones.

If you are serious about copywriting and learning the skills, then buy several courses, read many different sales letters in the marketplace, dissect them and absorb what they say. Discover why they said what they said and when they said it.

Pick up tabloid newspapers and read their headlines, really get into why they say what they say, and why it works so well.

Copywriting is truly a good skill to have and it is crucial to marketing online.

The important thing I guess I am trying to say here is, learn from many different sources and practice what you learn.

[Philip Wong Contribution Level: 2]

Thanks for the note Justin. I am presently studying Joe Vitale, Dan Kennedy and several others to understand format and psychology behind their writings.

I can't quite bring myself to write a long-tail because I'm used to summarizing a lot of technical stuff into easy bite sized pieces in my present profession.

I reckon there'll be loads of stumbling before I tune in to the right frequency.

Thanks again.
Phil.

[Tom Bell Contribution Level: 1]

My favorite copywriting mentor is whoever is beating me in a test ;-)

Here is what I mean by that, there are a ton of great copywriters out there, John Carlton comes to mind as one of the true greats (btw, thanks for picking up the tab last week in LA John)

The ones that I have a world of respect for are in the markets I am in, with better sales pages then me, the point being test test, test it may be daunting to write good copy but its comparatively easy to respond to what the market is asking for.

So, when testing, testing competitors, testing offers, testing lead capture pages, I like to look at who is winning in that specific market and take cues from there (hey, its already working)

Just my $.02

[Philip Wong Contribution Level: 2]

Thanks to Tim for making this a separate forum topic.

From what I have gleaned, the general format is there i.e. personal touch, authenticity, key words used. It's almost difficult to separate the format other than the personality of the copywriter, for example, John Carlton is pretty much shooting from the hip, Dan Kennedy is witty and sarcastic at the same time, Joe Vitale is very subtle, and Mike (Dillard), well, he's similar to John, except that he's _slightly_ more diplomatic (no offense I hope).

I hope to find my own voice in my sales page soon. However, my next (stupid) question is - is a long sales page really necessary? I understand that it is a statistical reality but is it a necessary "evil" (IMHO)?

Regards
Philip.

[Justin Christianson Contribution Level: 2]

The only way you are going to learn how to get your own voice is to go out and do it and then test the results...

It all still will come down to implementing the basics that most everyone use, and throw your own twist on it.

Michel Fortin starts most of his presentation almost every time he speaks with something like... "I am not that good of a copywriter, my clients are just fanatical testers" (Paraphrased of course) ;)

But again it all comes down to just go out and do it and test the results from there to see what really works.

Testing is always going to be the key, but you need to have a good foundation to test.

I find it very helpful, a little tedious, but very helpful, to take a sales letter that you like and that is proven, and print it. Then sit down and write it out word for word on a piece of paper. This will help your brain start to think like that person wrote, and if you do this several times, you will find that you will start to grasp how they write and why they write it.

Ok enough of that... ;)

As for your comment about long sales letters...

It is not always necessary to write a big long in depth sales letter... But you need to sell through words...

Write how ever much you need to get your point across, not a sentence longer... So if it takes you 3 pages to get your point across then fine, or it may take you 15 pages to get your point across...

Don't worry about length as much as content!

Hope this helps,

Justin

[Philip Wong Contribution Level: 2]

:woohoo: Can't thank you enough for the pointers Justin. Off to work on the sales copy for me. Might take a while, but I'll keep you posted.

Rgds
Phil.

[Jim Yaghi Contribution Level: 3]

Hey everyone--i absolutely LOVE copyrighting. Ever since i discovered it, I have been getting practice in every single bit of communication i do. Learning copyrighting is learning relationships.

I love the work of Michael Fortin and Joe Vitale. I like how Joe Vitale takes the approach of talking to the pleasure triggers of prospects.

Based on my VERY limited experience i'll share some tips i learned.

First of all, just be yourself, be absolutely genuine. I hate reading sales letters full of loud fonts and colours and highlighting everywhere so full of hype. Tell people the truth that there is hard work to be done. Seriously, do you want lazy prospects joining your downline? I don't. I don't get as high a volume of sales as some people do, but think about it--every time you make some hyped up sounding claim, whether it's true or false people go YEAH RIGHT.

Here's what i do. I close my eyes and see a picture in my head then i try to describe it. The other day i wanted to describe the ability to attract customers and prospects. I closed my eyes and saw a cartoon. Remember how in cartoons when someone is making a really yummy meal there's always some other character outside who smells the cooking and then they float off the ground following the smoke all the way to the source of the aroma?

Well that's the picture that was in my head. I tried to describe it in words and it was hard but i kept going back and revising it till i got something that sounded ok. Bit goofy? ahh well...it got the desired effect.


jim yaghi
http://www.ozibillionaire.com/quiz.php

I like Brian Keith Voyles and Mackay Ross

Warmly,

Paulie Sabol

[David Schwind Company: Numis Network Contribution Level: 2]

Hmmm... the best copywriter to learn from?

Different things can be learned from different teachers, so I'll just share my experience.

My favorite copywriter is Joe Vitale by a long shot, because he has morphed his own style. His copy comes across more personal and more "under the radar". Definitely less "sales-y" than most. Best of all, his opening statements don't "pitch" you, they "engage" you. Definitely a hypnotic writing master.

I also like Gary Halbert. (Sadly he passed away earlier this year). But his copy is really great as well. I mostly like him, because he was never afraid to say anything, which is what made him good at stirring up emotions.

Mark joyner is also phenominal, but you'll have a hard time finding anything lately from him, as he focuses on his simpleology mostly.

Michel Fortin is good at explaining a definite "science" to writing powerful copy.

Oh, Joe Sugarman has an incredible book on writing sales letters. The book isnt with me at this moment, but type his name in amazon. It's his newest one and has a yellow cover. "the copywriters adweek guide" or something.

Now as I said, I have learned things from every copywriter out there, but some of them, even though they write PHENOMINAL copy... I don't want to read it because it turn me off. Basically, they have crappy formating.

In my opinion, Dan Kennedy is one of them (Even tho he is a legendary copywriter)
Yanik Silver, who I've finally decided to learn from because of his great "funnel" video's, is another one that writes incredible copy, but turns me off with his extravagant colors and graphics.

(Make no mistake about it, these individuals are phenominal people to learn from when it comes to writing killer copy, but "formatting" is just as important as the copy)

Personally, out of every great copywriter, when it comes to formatting, I learned the most from Mike Dillard. Look at his websites... they're simple, neat, easy to read, very little highlights, and are "stupid" easy to navigate.

Some old John Caples books are pretty good reading too.

All in all, I've learned from every name mentioned in this post.

Anyone looking to learn from the beginning,

I would recommend the book I mentioned above by Joe Sugarman, "the copywriters handbook" - which is a book by Robert Bly, and as far as internet copy goes...

I would recommend a course or two by David Garfinkel, because he's easy to follow for beginners.

I've also heard rave reviews about Yaniks "ultimate copywriting workshop" even tho its one of the only courses I dont personally own yet.

WOW! what a ramble! Well, hope this helps!:cheer: