Forums

Please Give Cold Hard Facts!

Post a reply


Enter the code exactly as it appears. All letters are case insensitive, there is no zero.
   

Expand view Topic review: Please Give Cold Hard Facts!

Re: Please Give Cold Hard Facts!

Post by justice44 on Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:53 am

kimor wrote:Hi Mark,

Hoping to sound relatively coherent as it's 11.30pm here!

My point is that advertisement implies not one word of what you are saying
.

Ahh...but it doesn't need to. All it needs to do is get the click. It implies that you may be wasting your time in your biz opp (so all those who are currently not getting their required success in their MLM are going to wonder if they're in the wrong one)...so here's the emotional pull...the emotional problem of the vast majority of MLMers. Then it goes on to give the solution: "Find Your Perfect Business...". It DOESN'T say - "Find your perfect MLM" or "Find your perfect business opportunity"...but just "your business". There's a subtle difference.

If an individual can rise above their MLM...if they can change their mindset to one that portrays themselves as owning their own business...and if that business is built around their strengths, skills and talents...then they are half way there to their required success (whatever their own definition is). If that business is built around their MLM opportunity, then great, but sometimes their uniqueness is better off utilised elsewhere. What I would hope to see is that this programme takes people on that journey.

An ad, especially on this medium, can't possible say all of this because of the 2-3 second rule. In the old days, in ad agency land we used the "7 second rule". That is, the ad had to be read AND grab the target market's attention AND make them do something - all within 7 seconds. These days with the advent of the internet and other technologies where we are BOMBARDED with ads constantly, combined with the fact that we are becoming savvy ad consumers, this amount of time has dropped considerably. If you can't get someone to click within the first 2 or 3 seconds, you've had it. So all the ad is required to do is to "get the click". This is what marketing does - it asks people to raise their hands to say "Yes, I'm interested in finding out more". Then that person should enter a marketing and sales funnel (not sales and marketing...that's the wrong way around) which will take them through a decision making and buying process.

Where you CAN get away with longer copy and giving more of the "what happens" is with advertorials in print media. Consumers are in a different mindset when they sit down with a newspaper or magazine, so will read longer copy. Advertising on the internet HAS to have an immediacy about it, by the sheer nature of it: it's a very impatient media. People surf and whizz around the net (and this will get even worse with the new mobile technologies coming through) so something has to reach out and grab them by the throat to take effect and get the click. There is no time for long stories, or "this is what you get". If I were Stephen Little (the guy behind this ad) I would do an offline campaign as well in the print media that network marketers, franchisees and other biz opp seekers read and do advertorials or PR pieces, explaining my service in a little more detail. We don't all see just one medium, so a multi media campaign - online AND offline - will always be FAR more effective, and will satisfy the needs of people like yourself, who perhaps need more information before they go further.

And, yes, Steve Little is using attraction marketing. I have no idea whether there's an MLM opportunity at the end of the road, but ANY marketer of ANY product or service should be using attraction based marketing. This is what the professional marketing industry has been using since time began (that is, bringing people to them) and it's only now that network marketers are touting it as some brand new way of doing things. No. It may be new to network marketing, and maybe to internet marketing, (and obviously now, to internetwork marketing), but I can tell you that as a real life marketer, what's being taught now is only what the rest of the commercial world has been doing forever. So, all Stephen Little is doing is using proper, professional marketing methods (whatever new name people like to call it), that for me - as a marketer who's seen thousands of creative concepts and campaigns over my time - ticks all the right boxes.

As for needing mobiles - no, I disagree. As human beings, we don't need a phone. It makes life easier, I agree, but we don't actually need them. We WANT them so that we can be in contact all the time (why though?!), but we don't need them. As humans we need shelter, food, water, safety, warmth and love & companionship. After the basics are met, all other things are aspirational and "wants", not needs.

OK, so we now live in a modern, technological age. But when I was growing up, I can remember being a Girl Guide (yeah, yeah, I know) and "Being Prepared" meant having a 2p piece to be able to make a phone call from a public phone box. (Along with the safety pin, the plaster and a spare tissue). And we all thought we lived in a modern age then.

OK, so you might like being able to call anywhere in the world at the touch of the button, when you're lying on a beach in the Bahamas, but you don't NEED to. Landlines have always worked to call abroad, at least in fairly modern times. BUT...if you lost everything today...and I mean literally everything...and found yourself out of the street with nothing, what would you do? Your first thoughts will to make yourself safe, find a roof over your head and get something to eat. If you needed to ring someone, and you found a coin in the street, you would use a public landline phone. You would not be rushing out trying to get yourself a mobile phone.

Once you've got yourself back on your feet again, and you're secure, and you know your family's safe, then, and only then, would you consider getting a mobile phone again. Or a TV. Or anything else technological for that matter. If it came to my mobile or feeding my kids, the mobile would go everytime. I would still have the ability to speak to people with the landline. Actually, I only use my landline for business, but that's my personal decision. It may not be yours, but if it got taken away, you could live without it. I know this, because we all did 20 years or so ago!

Technology companies play to our aspirations (an emotion). They pay ad agencies with very clever creative directors and copywriters LOTS of money to come up with ads that convince us why we "need" them. Not want them, but need them. And, as I said in my last post, we don't buy on price. Mobile phones seem to be all singing, all dancing these days, so phone companies are going to have to differentiate in one of three factors: the style (the new i-phone for instance), what it does (the Blackberry) and monthly pricing. The pricing will be the last factor that we use in our decision making process. We get sucked in to all these amazing features, and the fact that it looks good, (and in my case, it has to be bright pink!), when all we want is to call someone and speak to them. We buy a mobile because we like it, not because of its price or monthly charges (although we'd obviously look to getting the best deal on monthly charges, but that's down to the network, not the phone itself).

Mobile networks still have to compete against landlines and convince us why we would want to spend extra money each month when we have a perfectly good landline phone. I can pick up landline, dial a number and talk to anyone in the world. No extra features other than an answer machine. It's an ordinary looking handset, and it's not even hot pink! But it does the job I need it to do, and that is, enable me to communicate with someone. And my monthly mobile bill is MORE than my landline, because I have a package with my landline that gives me free calls up to an hour in most major countries around the world.

Anyway, that's enough for me for one evening, methinks!
Kim.

Apologies for any typos - it IS late, and I've lost all ability to stype properly.


Thanks Kim for your insight. I will have to digest all the information that you given me. You make some good points.

Re: Please Give Cold Hard Facts!

Post by davehayes on Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:36 pm

Kim, nice reply,wel lsaid.

Dave

Re: Please Give Cold Hard Facts!

Post by kimor on Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:36 pm

Hi Mark,

Hoping to sound relatively coherent as it's 11.30pm here!

My point is that advertisement implies not one word of what you are saying
.

Ahh...but it doesn't need to. All it needs to do is get the click. It implies that you may be wasting your time in your biz opp (so all those who are currently not getting their required success in their MLM are going to wonder if they're in the wrong one)...so here's the emotional pull...the emotional problem of the vast majority of MLMers. Then it goes on to give the solution: "Find Your Perfect Business...". It DOESN'T say - "Find your perfect MLM" or "Find your perfect business opportunity"...but just "your business". There's a subtle difference.

If an individual can rise above their MLM...if they can change their mindset to one that portrays themselves as owning their own business...and if that business is built around their strengths, skills and talents...then they are half way there to their required success (whatever their own definition is). If that business is built around their MLM opportunity, then great, but sometimes their uniqueness is better off utilised elsewhere. What I would hope to see is that this programme takes people on that journey.

An ad, especially on this medium, can't possible say all of this because of the 2-3 second rule. In the old days, in ad agency land we used the "7 second rule". That is, the ad had to be read AND grab the target market's attention AND make them do something - all within 7 seconds. These days with the advent of the internet and other technologies where we are BOMBARDED with ads constantly, combined with the fact that we are becoming savvy ad consumers, this amount of time has dropped considerably. If you can't get someone to click within the first 2 or 3 seconds, you've had it. So all the ad is required to do is to "get the click". This is what marketing does - it asks people to raise their hands to say "Yes, I'm interested in finding out more". Then that person should enter a marketing and sales funnel (not sales and marketing...that's the wrong way around) which will take them through a decision making and buying process.

Where you CAN get away with longer copy and giving more of the "what happens" is with advertorials in print media. Consumers are in a different mindset when they sit down with a newspaper or magazine, so will read longer copy. Advertising on the internet HAS to have an immediacy about it, by the sheer nature of it: it's a very impatient media. People surf and whizz around the net (and this will get even worse with the new mobile technologies coming through) so something has to reach out and grab them by the throat to take effect and get the click. There is no time for long stories, or "this is what you get". If I were Stephen Little (the guy behind this ad) I would do an offline campaign as well in the print media that network marketers, franchisees and other biz opp seekers read and do advertorials or PR pieces, explaining my service in a little more detail. We don't all see just one medium, so a multi media campaign - online AND offline - will always be FAR more effective, and will satisfy the needs of people like yourself, who perhaps need more information before they go further.

And, yes, Steve Little is using attraction marketing. I have no idea whether there's an MLM opportunity at the end of the road, but ANY marketer of ANY product or service should be using attraction based marketing. This is what the professional marketing industry has been using since time began (that is, bringing people to them) and it's only now that network marketers are touting it as some brand new way of doing things. No. It may be new to network marketing, and maybe to internet marketing, (and obviously now, to internetwork marketing), but I can tell you that as a real life marketer, what's being taught now is only what the rest of the commercial world has been doing forever. So, all Stephen Little is doing is using proper, professional marketing methods (whatever new name people like to call it), that for me - as a marketer who's seen thousands of creative concepts and campaigns over my time - ticks all the right boxes.

As for needing mobiles - no, I disagree. As human beings, we don't need a phone. It makes life easier, I agree, but we don't actually need them. We WANT them so that we can be in contact all the time (why though?!), but we don't need them. As humans we need shelter, food, water, safety, warmth and love & companionship. After the basics are met, all other things are aspirational and "wants", not needs.

OK, so we now live in a modern, technological age. But when I was growing up, I can remember being a Girl Guide (yeah, yeah, I know) and "Being Prepared" meant having a 2p piece to be able to make a phone call from a public phone box. (Along with the safety pin, the plaster and a spare tissue). And we all thought we lived in a modern age then.

OK, so you might like being able to call anywhere in the world at the touch of the button, when you're lying on a beach in the Bahamas, but you don't NEED to. Landlines have always worked to call abroad, at least in fairly modern times. BUT...if you lost everything today...and I mean literally everything...and found yourself out of the street with nothing, what would you do? Your first thoughts will to make yourself safe, find a roof over your head and get something to eat. If you needed to ring someone, and you found a coin in the street, you would use a public landline phone. You would not be rushing out trying to get yourself a mobile phone.

Once you've got yourself back on your feet again, and you're secure, and you know your family's safe, then, and only then, would you consider getting a mobile phone again. Or a TV. Or anything else technological for that matter. If it came to my mobile or feeding my kids, the mobile would go everytime. I would still have the ability to speak to people with the landline. Actually, I only use my landline for business, but that's my personal decision. It may not be yours, but if it got taken away, you could live without it. I know this, because we all did 20 years or so ago!

Technology companies play to our aspirations (an emotion). They pay ad agencies with very clever creative directors and copywriters LOTS of money to come up with ads that convince us why we "need" them. Not want them, but need them. And, as I said in my last post, we don't buy on price. Mobile phones seem to be all singing, all dancing these days, so phone companies are going to have to differentiate in one of three factors: the style (the new i-phone for instance), what it does (the Blackberry) and monthly pricing. The pricing will be the last factor that we use in our decision making process. We get sucked in to all these amazing features, and the fact that it looks good, (and in my case, it has to be bright pink!), when all we want is to call someone and speak to them. We buy a mobile because we like it, not because of its price or monthly charges (although we'd obviously look to getting the best deal on monthly charges, but that's down to the network, not the phone itself).

Mobile networks still have to compete against landlines and convince us why we would want to spend extra money each month when we have a perfectly good landline phone. I can pick up landline, dial a number and talk to anyone in the world. No extra features other than an answer machine. It's an ordinary looking handset, and it's not even hot pink! But it does the job I need it to do, and that is, enable me to communicate with someone. And my monthly mobile bill is MORE than my landline, because I have a package with my landline that gives me free calls up to an hour in most major countries around the world.

Anyway, that's enough for me for one evening, methinks!
Kim.

Apologies for any typos - it IS late, and I've lost all ability to stype properly.

Re: Please Give Cold Hard Facts!

Post by illisit on Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:10 pm

Hey Justice,

Great topic! One thing I can say, irrespective of whether or not the ad in question is overhyped it can still serve as a lesson for those of us who are marketing our companies.

Often we get so caught up in the hype of "luring" our prospects, we forget that this is a very human and emotionally driven industry. It can be quite easy to mislead people without intending to. I have learned the hard way that people want to believe what you lead them to believe and often, if you aren't wise in your leadership you can crush someone who would've followed you to the moon.

I am glad that you posted this as food for thought and hope that your words serve as a cautionary tale for those of us in the fast lane to build our businesses.

Best of luck to all!

-Jason

Re: Please Give Cold Hard Facts!

Post by justice44 on Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:43 pm

kimor wrote:Hi there,

Did you actually click on the ad to see what was behind it?

No, there reason why was because it sounded like hype. Consumers get tired of that.

I did, and certainly at first glance it was nothing to do with selling a 'perfect' MLM opportunity.

Then why is their ad directly say that :? :? :? :? :? :?

{quote}There is a short questionnaire that you do and as a result you get a free report (computer generated so you have to sit and analyse the information) that shows your strengths.

Thanks for the information. But if they worded it differently, I may have known this. ;)

It goes on the basis that, if you're going to be successful in life....if you're going to find the perfect business for you....then you need to work to your strengths. This is what businesses do and this is what successful business leaders do, so it's a lesson for the uninitated.

I agree with you for the most part except for the perfect business part. My point is that advertisement implies not one word of what you are saying.

Certainly when I'm coaching marketing, one of the very first things I do is look at the strengths and weaknesses of the individual I'm coaching, their company AND their products. It reveals SO much and gives a very clear way forward in both business planning and marketing strategy.

I agree that is solid skill for a good marketing coach or any coach to have.

So, I think the headline is right in saying what it does.

What you described, IMO is simply not what the ad infers.

And from a copywriting point of view, it plays to the emotions and, more importantly, the emotional benefits to the person reading.

It centrally plays to the emotions with a hype implicit promise. It is similar to the spam I recieve in e-mail. However, BN has the right to put any ad it wants in its forum.

It's been proven time and time again that we mere mortals buy on emotions, not features (or facts).

That is true but some times that can be destructive. Look at our debt problem. I am guilty of buying on emotion rather than logic as well.

If you disagree with me, just look at why Mercedes are successful, or Porsche, or Harrods in the UK, or any other top end products. If you buy on facts alone, any old beat up car that gets you from A to B without breaking down, will do. But, people are emotional creatures and aspire to certain products and services. We buy into a set of emotions when we buy a Merc, not a set of facts.

YOur are right but that does not mean it is the right way to market in all cases. I am not the only one who finds ads like this annoying others do and they simply will not click the tag to hear there hype. BTW
I get the feeling that the author of the ad is an attraction marketer.

It all comes down to wants and needs. Do we all really need a TV? Do we really need a flat, plasma, high definition one that hangs on the wall? What about Sky/Tivo (?)? Why do we need 3 zillion TV channels from across the globe? Do we need the DVD player that goes with it...and do we need the 300 DVDs that are on the shelf, that we only watch once? Why do need a mobile phone when landlines work just as well? If the companies sold these things just on features or facts, none would get sold.


I believe facts that demonstrate a need or desire are the reason why TVs are sold. Let me answer one of your questions. We want mobile phones because we want to talk to people from various locations. A 1970s phone can not accomplish this. But it is still based on the cold hard fact that mobile phones can be used at various locations of convenience. SEcondly, mobile phone carries have shown cold hard facts concrning price to show us that mobile phones are cheaper per month when it comes to long distance compared to traditional phones.


But, we've all convinced ourselves...or rather the companies have convinced us that we "need" them, when in fact they've only made us "want" them because they play to our emotions.

I agree that some things like videos and music trigger emotional buying, however cellphones are a bit different.

Re: Please Give Cold Hard Facts!

Post by nlgaddy on Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:34 am

Kim, You said it best. Thanks. :P

Nancy

Re: Please Give Cold Hard Facts!

Post by kimor on Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:50 am

Hi there,

Did you actually click on the ad to see what was behind it?

I did, and certainly at first glance it was nothing to do with selling a 'perfect' MLM opportunity. There is a short questionnaire that you do and as a result you get a free report (computer generated so you have to sit and analyse the information) that shows your strengths. It goes on the basis that, if you're going to be successful in life....if you're going to find the perfect business for you....then you need to work to your strengths. This is what businesses do and this is what successful business leaders do, so it's a lesson for the uninitated. Certainly when I'm coaching marketing, one of the very first things I do is look at the strengths and weaknesses of the individual I'm coaching, their company AND their products. It reveals SO much and gives a very clear way forward in both business planning and marketing strategy.

So, I think the headline is right in saying what it does. And from a copywriting point of view, it plays to the emotions and, more importantly, the emotional benefits to the person reading. It's been proven time and time again that we mere mortals buy on emotions, not features (or facts). The "facts" become part of the decision making process, but they, along with price (and that's a whole other subject!) take a firm second place to emotions. If you disagree with me, just look at why Mercedes are successful, or Porsche, or Harrods in the UK, or any other top end products. If you buy on facts alone, any old beat up car that gets you from A to B without breaking down, will do. But, people are emotional creatures and aspire to certain products and services. We buy into a set of emotions when we buy a Merc, not a set of facts.

It all comes down to wants and needs. Do we all really need a TV? Do we really need a flat, plasma, high definition one that hangs on the wall? What about Sky/Tivo (?)? Why do we need 3 zillion TV channels from across the globe? Do we need the DVD player that goes with it...and do we need the 300 DVDs that are on the shelf, that we only watch once? Why do need a mobile phone when landlines work just as well? If the companies sold these things just on features or facts, none would get sold. But, we've all convinced ourselves...or rather the companies have convinced us that we "need" them, when in fact they've only made us "want" them because they play to our emotions.

OK, so I don't like hype along with everyone else. But having worked with copywriters for the best part of two decades, I know it can be a difficult balance to strike. The only way to get a response is to write a headline that plays to someone's emotions. If you don't believe me, test some headlines for yourself.

I don't think this particular headline was overhyped. The service behind it would do what the headline promised (the full service is a business coaching programme by the looks of it), so I think it's the right headline to use for the ad. People want to be successful in life (certainly ones on this forum) and they therefore are trying to work out how to create the perfect business for themselves. Whether you've articulated it or not, that's the thought process. Perfect business = perfect life. So, all this headline has done has echoed the thoughts of, I suspect, the majority of those on this forum and given people the solution. And that's what marketing is all about - identifying the needs, wants and desires of your target audience and giving them the solution, profitably. (Not the official definition, but a close enough translation).

Hope that helps,
Kim.

Re: Please Give Cold Hard Facts!

Post by joshthomas80 on Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:41 pm

Mark,
Please take this comment from a purely constructive criticism standpoint...

While your suggestion is noble, from a marketing
perspective, the alternative headline stinks.
Nothin' but love for ya. I just gotta tell it like it is.

A.
“Are You Wasting Your Time in the wrong business opportunity? Find Your Perfect Business in 21 days.”
-----compelling, concrete

B.
"Let's see if we can find a business that truly suits your goals and needs."
-----boring, vague

A. has a "hook" which grabs your attention. It provokes
an internal curiosity making us really wonder if what we
are doing is right for us. It does not tell us we are wasting
our time, merely makes us wonder if we are. It also has a
direct call to action. There is a concrete direction with an
achievable goal. This is a well written headline, no hype.

B. is inconclusive. "Let's see" does not promote any kind of
confidence that clicking on this ad will produce a result. It
seems as though the writer doesn't really know if he can help
us. Further, there is an implication here that what we are
doing now is not suiting our needs, more so than ad A.

I totally agree with you that copywriting can seem slimy and
misleading at times. You are right that some folks take it too
far. However, the example you gave (and I have seen that ad
as well) seems to be a very well written headline.

Given the choice between the two, I would click on ad A every time.

Re: Please Give Cold Hard Facts!

Post by justice44 on Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:04 pm

abw1111 wrote:
justice44 wrote:Hi abw1111,

I don't think that is the ad was trying to imply perfect business for an individual. It could of said, "Let's see if we can find a business that truly suits your goals and needs." That is a confident but not hyped up ad. However, I understand your point.


Well, you know the reason for that ad title. It is to invoke an emotional response and grab attention. If you compare both that title and yours, their title will grab more attention, what is exactly the point of a good title. Although the message may be skewed, it does what it needs to do. Which is invoke a response/action.

What do you mean that the message may be skewed?

Re: Please Give Cold Hard Facts!

Post by justice44 on Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:04 pm

abw1111 wrote:
justice44 wrote:Hi abw1111,

I don't think that is the ad was trying to imply perfect business for an individual. It could of said, "Let's see if we can find a business that truly suits your goals and needs." That is a confident but not hyped up ad. However, I understand your point.


Well, you know the reason for that ad title. It is to invoke an emotional response and grab attention. If you compare both that title and yours, their title will grab more attention, what is exactly the point of a good title. Although the message may be skewed, it does what it needs to do. Which is invoke a response/action.

What do you me the message may be skewed?

Top

cron