Love of Money

Love of Money

Paul,

Thanks again for commenting on my post, but I have to say, this is probably a hot topic because if you believe Jesus was rich or if you think He was poor and find out He was actually rich, that would change our whole perspective on how Jesus lived and even who He was and is. It would be a whole other Jesus. Please see 2 Corinthians 11:4  Although I respectfully disagree with you on this one, I really do appreciate what you wrote, because it makes me understand some things about how people could believe that Jesus had a lot of money.  I have wondered that, since it is something I once heard years ago.  I have never thought that Jesus was anything but poor and very humble because in the Old Testament when it spoke of Him it says he had no beauty, Isaiah 53:2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.  

If he was wearing rich, expensive clothes, people would desire him, so I don't see where that is what the lucrative businessmen saw in Jesus. 

Psalms 22:11 Was a prophecy that was fulfilled when the soldiers cast lots for His clothes.  John 19:24 They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rent it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be: that the scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them, and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore the soldiers did. John 19:23 Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also his coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout.  

We would be assuming if we say the soldiers did this because he had fine clothes because it doesn't really say that.

Luk 9:57

Why did Jesus say he didn't have anywhere to lay his head? 

The rest of what you wrote in Who Wrote the Bible post I agree with as far as the heart issue of loving money and of the examples of people who did love money.  Also, Solomon, David, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob had a lot of money. 

Maybe we could get more input of others on this issue.  I have a question though, if Jesus was poor, would you still follow Him?

Good Post!

Rita,

I knew this was going to open a can, because it's always a touchy subject with us Christians.  To start, it doesn't matter if Christ was rich, poor, black, white, ugly, or pretty.  The fact that His blood shed for us is the only reason why any Christian has the chance to make it to Heaven is more than good enough for me to follow Him with everything I have, and not take His love for granted.  If Jesus were rich or poor, it wouldn't change a true Christian's perspective of Him one bit.  If it did, then their Christianity is conditional, and I'd question whether it was true at all.

And the more I think about it, the less (to me at least) it matters if Christ was rich or poor, but since debate between open-minded people is always good for broadening our thinking, I'll continue anyway.

I know 2 Corinthians 11:4, and though it's a great verse, I don't know how this pertains to the debate.  Right now, we're attempting to figure out the Truth about the One Paul and the apostles taught about.  For example, there are those who preach a seeker friendly Jesus, where I can do any sinful thing, but it's alright, keep doing that...Jesus loves you and wants the best for you, even though you're an adulterous, murdering (by Christ's standards), lier.  Any true Christian knows this is false.

At that time, Paul was teaching the church at Corinth about the Gospel and about Christ.  What happened was a false prophet came in, and instantly taught a contridictionary gospel, and the congregation ate it up.  That's not what we're talking about.  We're having a honest conversation about a subject that we don't share the same viewpoints on.

Also, Isaiah 53:2 never said that Jesus was poor, it says He had no form or comeliness.  This was talking about his demeaner and physical stature, not his financial state.  Just because someone wears expensive clothing, and has money, doesn't mean people desire them (i.e. Lee Raymond,).  There are those who wear nice clothing, and have a lot of money, that you look at and see just another person.  There's nothing really special about them.  There are probably a lot of people we walk past everyday who are loaded and we would never know it.  On the other hand, there are those who are dressed with Prada, Gucci, Versace, and every other designer name dripping all over them, they look and act like they swim in money, and they're neck deep in debt.   

Just because someone's worth $54 billion dollars, doesn't mean they dress like they have $54 billion dollars (i.e. Warren Buffett).

Psalms 22:18 and John 19:24-25 all have to do with the division of Jesus garments, sure, but from the Roman soliders point-of-view, why did they divide them up?  They didn't know it was prophesy that they were fulfilling and prophecy is never fulfilled "just because."  There was a motive for them wanting to divy up His clothing.  Now it's true whether or not it was because they were worth a lot is never stated, but I can't think of another reason why they would want rags from a crazy, blaspheming poor man.

Luke 9:57-58, again, doesn't have to do with wealth.  It says that the Son of man doesn't have a place to lay his head, but why?  Was it that He couldn't afford it or is it because He knew that in order to fulfill His ministry, and God's will, going to His own house every night wasn't an option.  How could it be?

There are other scriptures that we both can bring up to make our cases, but like with anything, both spirituality and logic need to be used in desiphering what they really mean.

OK, I'm spent... :-)

Good post

Thanks again Paul, you do make interesting points and give me a lot to think about. Honestly, these are things I have never thought about and gives me a lot of things to study and ponder.

God bless you,

Rita

Good post!

Paul,

 I have been thinking about what we talked about and as I read all you wrote, there are two paths of thought here between you and me, but in some respects, I feel neither of us are wrong. It is an issue of "perspective" when I said perspective, I am not saying I would then change my mind and not follow God, Yes, I still love and serve the Lord no matter what, because he paid the ultimate price in giving his life that I may live in a newness of life, forgiven by his blood. What I was trying to say with my question to you was that it is possible that the disciples dropped everything (James and John) and immediately followed Jesus for a reason other than he had a lot of money when he said come follow me. This was the very beginning of Jesus' ministry. Whether he had a lot of money then, I don't know. 

I think it is possible they saw an anointing and authority in Jesus for he had just come out of a time of intense fasting and prayer. Yes, the LOVE of money is the root of all evil. One can have money and still love the Lord with all their heart. There is nothing wrong with having money. It is what we do with it. As you shared, it is the issue of the heart. Now, not all Christians will be rich, for the Bible says the poor will always be with us, and even in Acts 11, when the great famine came which Agabus had prophesied about, the saints who had money and ability given by God to raise money, they sent relief to the hungry and poor brethren. God will not make all rich in money.  Jesus said, remember the poor the poor for they will always be with you.

The attitude of the heart is that we must forsake all in our heart to follow the Lord and build our treasures in heaven. How many times did Jesus say, sell all you have, give to the poor, come follow me? Many times. Paul, you do have a good heart here and I can see that in what you write. Just something to think about...why did all the disciples in Acts 2 and Acts 4 sell their homes, possessions, lands, and lay them at the Apostles feet? HMM??  Now, we know they did not become homeless. They did not become poor, because it says no man lacked. but they gave up all for the Kingdom.

Peter said to Jesus, master we have forsaken all, homes, lands, possessions, to follow you. Jesus said to Peter, all who have done such will get 100 fold back in this life. So Jesus does not want us all poor, shabby or beggars. The righteous never beg bread. but, we must remember the heart here. Jesus did not and could not have walked around making an appearance in life of earthly wealth or gain, for he would have sent forth the wrong message. Did Jesus have money? Of course he did, he had to. In the feeding of the 5000, the Bible says the disciples had 200 dinari, to buy 200 pennyworth of bread. But Jesus wanted them to feed the people spiritually, like in the fishes and loaves. So they did have money.

No, I do not believe, nor have I ever read where Jesus had Designer clothes, the finest leather sandals, or an appearance of natural earthly wealth. As you said, his countenance was uncomely and nothing to really look upon, which means his appearance was just as a normal man. The garments or vesture the Soldiers cast lots for were not his, for Jesus did not wear a Robe of wealth. What they cast lots for was the Purple Robe of Royalty, that Herod put upon Jesus to mock his claim of being a King!!  To Herod, only he was King, so when Herod mocked Jesus and sent him to Pilate, it was Herod as the King of Judea, an evil man in power, who put HIS ROBE on Jesus and sent him to Pilate.

Luke 23:10-12
    And the chief priests and scribes stood and vehemently accused him. [11] And Herod with his men of war set him at nought, and mocked him, and arrayed him in a gorgeous robe, and sent him again to Pilate.
    [12] And the same day Pilate and Herod were made friends together: for before they were at enmity between themselves.

Now notice how this gesture caused Pilate and Herod to now become friends in a sense, respecting each others power in a sense. So when Jesus was sent back to Pilate, it was Herod who put a King's "gorgeous" Robe on Jesus, to mock his claim of being a King. So you can see, that Jesus could not have had the appearance of wealth, for putting wealth on him was mockery.

Now, when he arrived back to Pilate, wearing, the robe, he was stripped down, beaten terribly, then the Roman Soldiers put a Crown of Thorns into his head and put this Purple Robe or a King's Stature on Jesus and him.

John 19:1-2
    Then Pilate therefore took Jesus, and scourged him. [2] And the soldiers platted a crown of thorns, and put it on his head, and they put on him a purple robe,

John 19:23-24
    Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also his coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout. [24] They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be: that the scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them, and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore the soldiers did.

Now, if we read this in perspective, Jesus himself did not have a cloak, a tunic, which is the word for coat here. We just saw that Herod put his gorgeous robe on Jesus. So after the beating, this covering was put back on him, he was mocked by the Romans now, it was taken off, his raiment put back on, stained in blood from his back, then to Calvary. Now when they parted his garments, and his coat (Tunic), that was a finely woven piece with no seam. I believe, this was the Kings Robe from Herod, and the soldiers knew the value of it for it was King Herods. Just something to think about.

Lastly people do fulfill scripture by the Divine Providence of God even if they do not know it.  God was speaking to sinful what he always said would happen by the prophets, and on that day, sinful man was just fulfilling what God said would happen all along. 

I agree, Jesus did not parade wealth, riches and even told his disciples when he sent them out, to take no money with them.

Luke 9:3
    And he said unto them, Take nothing for your journey, neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece.

But money is not the issue, FAITH was and trusting God. YES, God wants his people blessed and will always provide for them, but God does NOT promise wealth to all, money to all, riches to all, but wants those blessed with the ability to make money to give to the needy always. Amen to that. I wish I had one million dollars in my acct. for I would give it all away to those in need, even in my church. Be blessed and thanks for writing, I hope you know, I am not debating, only sharing and I respect your opinion.

God bless you,

Rita

Money

A subject one could talk about for hours.
I think one can be bound to money when you are rich as well as when you are poor.
It just must not take first place.
If you are worrying either way, you are bound to it.
Behind the matter of money is what matters. Fear? Greed? To free with it? Holding it to tight?